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Adoptees can obtain birth parent info

Posted by twocents 
Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 04, 2020
New York has just passed a bill (along with others) making it legal for these adoptees to look up birth parents.

Think it is a stupid idea and will increase abortion and cut down on adoption.

I wonder how many disasters have occured because of this.

Recipe for stupidity: just add a baby.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children
and I defy anyone to prove me wrong:

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

If I want to hear the pitter-patter of little feet I'll put shoes on my pets.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Entitlement, thy name is mooooooooooooooo

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 04, 2020
While many adoptees might want access to medical records for legitimate health reasons, I believe there is also a contingent who wants to track down their birth parents to confront them about why they were given up for adoption. The law as I understand it seems skewed to benefit adopted children and seems unfair as hell to birth parents who had an expectation of anonymity.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 05, 2020
Because fuck the birth parents who might want privacy and anonymity, right? It's not always a heartwarming reunion full of happy tears when a surrendered child shows up on its bio-parents' doorstep 25 years later wanting to get to know their "real" family. Imagine the turmoil it could cause if the mother didn't tell her partner about the existence of the child that she gave up because she wanted to forget the whole experience and move on with her life. That kind of shit can lead to divorce.

Not to mention what a kick in the nuts it is to the people who bought and raised the kid.

Wanting to know one's birth parents should be for medical history only and no names disclosed unless the biological parents agree to that information being shared. If adoptions are closed, it's for a reason. I agree, it will likely lead to more abortions and/or abandoned babies and fewer adoptions.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 06, 2020
I wonder if these adoptees are truly prepared for possible negative outcomes. What happens when they are told they are a rape baby? Or that their birth parents wish them well, but they want nothing to do with them?

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 06, 2020
Quote
LoveToLurk
I wonder if these adoptees are truly prepared for possible negative outcomes. What happens when they are told they are a rape baby? Or that their birth parents wish them well, but they want nothing to do with them?

Good point. Seems like there are so many ways such a meeting could go sideways.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 07, 2020
Anyone with sense has seen how the laws on sperm donation changed in a lot of countries to remove anonymity, and no surprise this would change with adoption, too. Obviously the only reasonable approach to situations like this is to consider if you could be outed many years after the fact, and what the implications would be for you if that happened. If the answer is that your situation could be revealed, because records will be retained, I wouldn't trust any claims of anonymity in the long term.

The end result will be more abortions. Which from my perspective is a good thing, because at present people present adoption as a viable alternative to abortion which has no significant costs for the woman and is therefore a good reason to ban abortion.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 07, 2020
What has helped to end sperm donor anonymity and sealing adoption records in other countries is a UN treaty hardly anyone in the US knows about: the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, ratified by that body in 1990. The US is the sole UN member that has not signed the CRC. However, some other countries signed it with reservations or exceptions.

The treaty says children have a right to know both birth parents. That explains the changes we have seen elsewhere and why most US states still can seal adoption records, for example, since the CRC doesn't yet apply here. Sperm donors and parents who give children for adoption technically cannot remain anonymous under the CRC as it is written.

If in doubt, check what the UN has up its sleeve. It isn't the only international body to watch. Europeans also have to deal with European Union regulations and a separate European court system that can overrule national courts, which are the reasons Britain wanted Brexit.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 07, 2020
Deleted duplicate post because of computer problem. Sorry.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 07, 2020
Quote
LoveToLurk
I wonder if these adoptees are truly prepared for possible negative outcomes. What happens when they are told they are a rape baby? Or that their birth parents wish them well, but they want nothing to do with them?

Gonna lean toward nope on this one. Everyone assumes that their birth parents will be thrilled to meet them and don't consider the circumstances under which they were given up. Yes, some people might be happy to meet their surrendered children if it was a case of the parent giving the kid up because they wanted it and couldn't afford it, but it's not going to be as joyous of a reunion when the reason for the surrender was because the father of the child was also the father of the mother or because the parents didn't want to be parents or because the child was taken away from abusive morons at birth.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 08, 2020
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Cambion
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LoveToLurk
I wonder if these adoptees are truly prepared for possible negative outcomes. What happens when they are told they are a rape baby? Or that their birth parents wish them well, but they want nothing to do with them?

Gonna lean toward nope on this one. Everyone assumes that their birth parents will be thrilled to meet them and don't consider the circumstances under which they were given up. Yes, some people might be happy to meet their surrendered children if it was a case of the parent giving the kid up because they wanted it and couldn't afford it, but it's not going to be as joyous of a reunion when the reason for the surrender was because the father of the child was also the father of the mother or because the parents didn't want to be parents or because the child was taken away from abusive morons at birth.

I can see where a young person may want closure with their birth parent(s). But reality is, there will be tons of life experiences where doors will close and there will be no closure so it isn't a bad idea to get used to it. If their birth parent(s) don't want them in their live(s) it is probably much more about the birth parents and the adopted kids are just the fallout. It wouldn't be easy for a kid to accept that fact that adoptions are mostly circumstantial and not personal.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 08, 2020
i got my birth records (ID info excluded) in 1980. I found a family member through Ancestry (well, actually my ex-girlfriend did). My parents told me that they knew from what they were told, My mum even offered to retain a detective to help find my birth family. She was livid when she realized the adoption agency had not told her about my mother's drinking problem (this was before FAS/FASD/FAE was recognized). It would have made my life better if they'd known of my problems. When you seal those records, you make adoptees permanent minors, at least in that area. I wondered for years if I had brothers and sisters, nephews and nieces (I'm a great-great aunt at this point). Now I know. My sister and I are in infrequent communication (she's a flake and grand-baby nuts). But I think adoptees do have a right to know of their real families. I knew that I was adopted at age 4 or 5 and when I was older my mother told me my family's last name. Nothing was ever hidden.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 08, 2020
Quote
Cambion
Everyone assumes that their birth parents will be thrilled to meet them and don't consider the circumstances under which they were given up. Yes, some people might be happy to meet their surrendered children if it was a case of the parent giving the kid up because they wanted it and couldn't afford it, but it's not going to be as joyous of a reunion when the reason for the surrender was because the father of the child was also the father of the mother or because the parents didn't want to be parents or because the child was taken away from abusive morons at birth.

Oh, you mean like this guy?
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 08, 2020
@yurble, wow, I can't believe how many people in the comments are saying the guy is an asshole. The kid didn't ask to be born, but that doesn't mean her biological father whom she never met owes her a relationship 16 years down the road. I think he did the right thing being up-front and honest with her, and while I'm sure it stung for her father to tell her to her face that he didn't want her, the kid's Moo decided to have the kid when the guy didn't and what 16-year-old wants to be a dad anyway? I suppose he could have just told her she had the wrong person on Facebook too, but it may not have stopped her from continuing to try.

This kid showing up could also easily fuck up the guy's current life and marriage. I'm sure the mother of the girl encouraged this shit and if anyone in the situation is an asshole, it's her.

But yeah, that's a perfect example of how connecting with long-lost bio parents can backfire. It's fucking 2020, people should know by now that not all children are wanted. It's nothing against that child personally, it's that the parent doesn't want to know them. And that's okay. Why the fuck would you want a relationship with a parent who didn't want you anyway?
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 09, 2020
MerlynHerne, you make good points about adoptees being "permanent minors" in some respects. I'm in favor of medical info and other seriously important info being made available, with birth parents identities and other personal info about them redacted.

In my opinion, adults are not entitled to relationships. People do not have a right to a relationship with their birth parents, and vice versa. There's a way to prop open that door in case the kid wants future contact, and it's open adoption. I think birth parents should be able to choose open or closed adoption.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 09, 2020
I feel sorry for the birth parents.

I remember when abortion was illegal, pre Roe, and the women who gave up their babies to adoption were guaranteed anonymity. This was to protect the woman and child from shame and guilt. Now, all these adopted adults will be coming out of the woodwork to find their birth mothers (because society's shame mostly falls on the women, and women are the ones who give birth). What if the birth mothers don't want to be found? What if there is a horrific memory attached to that baby? What if the birth mother/father doesn't want the spouse/kids to know about this (adult) child? Shouldn't their consideration and feelings be taken into account? Remember, they were promised secrecy, and now NY is violating that. Birth parents have rights, too, and one of those rights is the right to be left alone and out of the kid's life.

I said this years ago on Bratfree,and it bears repeating: If I were young and pregnant today and couldn't get an abortion, I'd birth it and leave it at a safe haven ASAP with no identification, so it couldn't be tracked back to me. If I was in a secluded, rural area with few people nearby, I'd birth it over a deep hole in the ground in the woods, and fill it up right away. That might sound horrific and indeed it is, but what choice do women have today, with abortion rights on the chopping block, birth control being targeted, and all rights going to the fetus and birthed baby? Women are an afterthought in all of this.

BTW, in the reddit link that yurble posted, I take the side of the OP. He is not an asshole. He told that 16 year old person that she was unplanned and unwanted by himself since the beginning. The asshole is the mother, who lied to her daughter that she was planned. How did the girl find the guy on FB? Unless he has an unusual name, there are a few billion people on that platform. I'm guessing the mother gave her daughter all relevant details so she could find him and potentially meet up with him. Did they think he'd suddenly love her once he met her? That he'd get all mushy and fatherly once she graced him with her presence?

It's another reason I'm not doing a 23 and Me, or other DNA database test. We have a few questionable people from the past in our family tree, and I have no interest in their progeny learning about us, if indeed there are any. My siblings and nieces/nephews aren't doing the DNA testing, either.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 09, 2020
Quote
Peace
BTW, in the reddit link that yurble posted, I take the side of the OP. He is not an asshole. He told that 16 year old person that she was unplanned and unwanted by himself since the beginning. The asshole is the mother, who lied to her daughter that she was planned. How did the girl find the guy on FB? Unless he has an unusual name, there are a few billion people on that platform. I'm guessing the mother gave her daughter all relevant details so she could find him and potentially meet up with him. Did they think he'd suddenly love her once he met her? That he'd get all mushy and fatherly once she graced him with her presence?

There is no telling what lies the moo has filled the kid with for 16 years.

There is something about a 16 year old suddenly contacting a birth parent who has wanted nothing to do with him/her that makes me curious. If it had happened at 11 or even 13 it wouldn't be as suspicious. I think of 16 year olds as a bucket of money needs: car and college. If she felt like she was missing out on holidays, etc. then I doubt this would have kicked in at 16. And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the moo egged her on to go see the birth father ultimately for financial reasons.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 09, 2020
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freya
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Peace
BTW, in the reddit link that yurble posted, I take the side of the OP. He is not an asshole. He told that 16 year old person that she was unplanned and unwanted by himself since the beginning. The asshole is the mother, who lied to her daughter that she was planned. How did the girl find the guy on FB? Unless he has an unusual name, there are a few billion people on that platform. I'm guessing the mother gave her daughter all relevant details so she could find him and potentially meet up with him. Did they think he'd suddenly love her once he met her? That he'd get all mushy and fatherly once she graced him with her presence?

There is no telling what lies the moo has filled the kid with for 16 years.

There is something about a 16 year old suddenly contacting a birth parent who has wanted nothing to do with him/her that makes me curious. If it had happened at 11 or even 13 it wouldn't be as suspicious. I think of 16 year olds as a bucket of money needs: car and college. If she felt like she was missing out on holidays, etc. then I doubt this would have kicked in at 16. And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the moo egged her on to go see the birth father ultimately for financial reasons.

You bring up a very valid point. If these people didn't bother with him for 16 years, not even for child support, then I'm thinking moo looked at the cost of college and told her to meet up with her birth duh to see if she couldn't get some $$$ from him. This also is making me think that moo might try to sue for back child support now. That would easily be a 6 figure amount with compound interest figured in.

Edit: Read what the OP's replies to the comments were: https://www.reddit.com/user/Throwawaypaoqi/comments/
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 09, 2020
Quote
Peace
It's another reason I'm not doing a 23 and Me, or other DNA database test. We have a few questionable people from the past in our family tree, and I have no interest in their progeny learning about us, if indeed there are any. My siblings and nieces/nephews aren't doing the DNA testing, either.

Same. While I would love to know what my ethnic make up is (am I really mostly German?) there are just some other questions I don’t want answered. And I know that you have to opt in to share your info on the public database or whatever it is, but that could change at anytime. Just like these closed adoptions did.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 10, 2020
Quote
randomcfchick
MerlynHerne, you make good points about adoptees being "permanent minors" in some respects. I'm in favor of medical info and other seriously important info being made available, with birth parents identities and other personal info about them redacted.

In my opinion, adults are not entitled to relationships. People do not have a right to a relationship with their birth parents, and vice versa. There's a way to prop open that door in case the kid wants future contact, and it's open adoption. I think birth parents should be able to choose open or closed adoption.

Trust me, I never wanted a relationship with them, because my adoptive parents gave me what gory details they had and while there was no physical abuse that they knew of, there was certainly emotional and physical neglect (when CPS had me examined after taking me away from my parents, they discovered that I had both scurvy and rickets). I just wanted the information I needed/wanted, which my sister gave to me. I met her once and haven't seen her since. And we email about once every two or three years. I wouldn't call that a relationship. And I've never wanted more than that.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 10, 2020
Quote
Peace
I said this years ago on Bratfree,and it bears repeating: If I were young and pregnant today and couldn't get an abortion, I'd birth it and leave it at a safe haven ASAP with no identification, so it couldn't be tracked back to me. If I was in a secluded, rural area with few people nearby, I'd birth it over a deep hole in the ground in the woods, and fill it up right away. That might sound horrific and indeed it is, but what choice do women have today, with abortion rights on the chopping block, birth control being targeted, and all rights going to the fetus and birthed baby? Women are an afterthought in all of this.

I can't help but feel that safe havens would be inadequate today. All you need is one of your relatives to do a commercial DNA test, and then a determined person would simply start working their way through your family tree to find you. There is definitely someone in your family who doesn't consider the privacy aspects, you can be sure of it, and it only takes one.

You already hear about such situations, I remember reading an article about a month ago about someone whose grandmother had been adopted, and who had tracked down relatives using DNA tests. At least in that case everyone directly involved in the story was dead, so it was more like distant relatives they might have lost contact with anyway contacting them, more out of curiosity than because of expectations.

The person who today gets a DNA test definitely isn't thinking about great-grandma's privacy. They aren't even thinking about the privacy of their parents, siblings, and cousins.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 11, 2020
Quote
MerlynHerne
Trust me, I never wanted a relationship with them, because my adoptive parents gave me what gory details they had and while there was no physical abuse that they knew of, there was certainly emotional and physical neglect (when CPS had me examined after taking me away from my parents, they discovered that I had both scurvy and rickets). I just wanted the information I needed/wanted, which my sister gave to me. I met her once and haven't seen her since. And we email about once every two or three years. I wouldn't call that a relationship. And I've never wanted more than that.

Yup, not a relationship at all, and I hope I didn't come across as interpreting an information exchange as such. A story like yours is the example of why people on either/both side(s) of an adoption should be able to keep that door closed. If the state or the agency that arranges the adoption allows for anonymous exchange of important info, the adoptee can find out what they need without risking any entanglement from the other side.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 14, 2020
""There is definitely someone in your family who doesn't consider the privacy aspects, you can be sure of it, and it only takes one.""

and as we know, there is always one in every crowd.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children
and I defy anyone to prove me wrong:

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

If I want to hear the pitter-patter of little feet I'll put shoes on my pets.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Entitlement, thy name is mooooooooooooooo

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 16, 2020
Some people are simply too stupid to understand the concept of "not wanting kids or not breeding". And they see no problem with hunting down bioparents.
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 17, 2020
Quote
LoveToLurk
Quote
Peace
It's another reason I'm not doing a 23 and Me, or other DNA database test. We have a few questionable people from the past in our family tree, and I have no interest in their progeny learning about us, if indeed there are any. My siblings and nieces/nephews aren't doing the DNA testing, either.

Same. While I would love to know what my ethnic make up is (am I really mostly German?) there are just some other questions I don’t want answered. And I know that you have to opt in to share your info on the public database or whatever it is, but that could change at anytime. Just like these closed adoptions did.

Another aspect about DNA databases is the police being able to get your DNA from these databases if they have a warrant. I've never been arrested, I've never done a DNA test so the police don't have my DNA on file anywhere.

One of these DNA databases is free, open source. Anybody can upload DNA and get matches to others. The police used it to find suspects in a murder cold case. Imagine if somebody wanted to track their bio parents and knew about a free, searchable DNA database. This is just a big NOPE.

My DNA is mine, and nobody's business.

https://fortune.com/2019/02/01/genetic-testing-consumer-dna-familytreedna-fbi/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2020/02/04/ancestry-fights-the-us-government-as-feds-try-to-grab-dna-data/#e29ab825871a
Re: Adoptees can obtain birth parent info
February 18, 2020
Quote
Peace
Another aspect about DNA databases is the police being able to get your DNA from these databases if they have a warrant. I've never been arrested, I've never done a DNA test so the police don't have my DNA on file anywhere.

One of these DNA databases is free, open source. Anybody can upload DNA and get matches to others. The police used it to find suspects in a murder cold case. Imagine if somebody wanted to track their bio parents and knew about a free, searchable DNA database. This is just a big NOPE.

My DNA is mine, and nobody's business.

https://fortune.com/2019/02/01/genetic-testing-consumer-dna-familytreedna-fbi/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2020/02/04/ancestry-fights-the-us-government-as-feds-try-to-grab-dna-data/#e29ab825871a

And if that idea doesn't scare you because you don't commit crimes, think again. When a DNA match is found by trawling through databases rather than by testing suspects, the odds are very different from those presented in court. Here's an article about that. I won't willingly enter my DNA into a database because there's no saying how it might be used, either against me or in support of actions I find morally repugnant (like certain branches of "medical" research).
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