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Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF
Posted by Cambion
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Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 24, 2022 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,976 |
The tl;dr version is that a tard child with autism and major separation anxiety latched onto the author's child, who lives in a house with a tard brother. Sounds like the girl was a sport about it for a while, but then the teacher wanted this girl to basically be the tard child's chaperone on a field trip and the girl cried and said she didn't want to have to be stressed out over being in charge of her retarded dingleberry classmate. Her own Moo (author) finally pulls her head out of her ass and tells the tard wrangler that her kid will not be minding the anxious awtarded classmate because the girl needs a break. After all, she deals with a tard at home and then a tard at school? No wonder she's fucking stressed!
Cue temper tantrum from the Moo, saying that the girl is intolerant and abandoning her child and is considering not letting her anxious brat go on thet trip at all simply because the girl wanted to enjoy being a regular kid without Tardlina being up her ass the whole time.
Obviously the Moo of "Maisy" is an asshole here for expecting someone else's kid to mind her little dumbass (you know, like an ADULT chaperone should be doing), but a lot of comments point out that the author is an asshole as well for allowing this shit to go on with the tard girl who basically treated her daughter like an emotional support animal.
One line stood out to me, where the author says her kid has "developed saintly patience and a knack for helping special needs kids with a sense of maturity beyond her years." That, to me, says that this poor kid has had to grow up much faster than what should be expected because she has to not only deal with her flaptard sibling and a screaming newbown at home, but she also has to be a daytime caregiver for someone else's little shit stain. Other Redditors correctly called it what it is: parentification. This is how you get a depressed pre-pubescent child. She has developed a tremendous sense of patience and maturity because she had no choice.
Both these parents can eat shit. This poor kid deserves better, and I bet you anything she will be childfree after all this horse shit.
https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/ssor10/aita_for_asking_that_my_daughter_not_share_a_room/
Cue temper tantrum from the Moo, saying that the girl is intolerant and abandoning her child and is considering not letting her anxious brat go on thet trip at all simply because the girl wanted to enjoy being a regular kid without Tardlina being up her ass the whole time.
Obviously the Moo of "Maisy" is an asshole here for expecting someone else's kid to mind her little dumbass (you know, like an ADULT chaperone should be doing), but a lot of comments point out that the author is an asshole as well for allowing this shit to go on with the tard girl who basically treated her daughter like an emotional support animal.
One line stood out to me, where the author says her kid has "developed saintly patience and a knack for helping special needs kids with a sense of maturity beyond her years." That, to me, says that this poor kid has had to grow up much faster than what should be expected because she has to not only deal with her flaptard sibling and a screaming newbown at home, but she also has to be a daytime caregiver for someone else's little shit stain. Other Redditors correctly called it what it is: parentification. This is how you get a depressed pre-pubescent child. She has developed a tremendous sense of patience and maturity because she had no choice.
Both these parents can eat shit. This poor kid deserves better, and I bet you anything she will be childfree after all this horse shit.
https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/ssor10/aita_for_asking_that_my_daughter_not_share_a_room/
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I (35f) have four kids, 10F, 6M, 4F and 1F.
Our eldest, 'Izzy' is 10. She is a doll. My son, 'Luke' has autism and ADHD and while lovable, can be a bit of a handful at times. Therefore, Izzy is witness to both the fun and not-so-fun parts of neurodiversity and has developed saintly patience and a knack for helping special needs kids with a sense of maturity beyond her years.
Particulary notable is her kindness with 'Maisy', a girl in her class with autism and severe anxiety, which has worsened as a result of the tumult of the last few years. Izzy's help to Maisy has been bought to my attention before and I am a super proud mama. Next weekend, school are taking my daughter's class on a trip, and on Thursday, Izzy's teacher asked her to be in a room with Maisy, saying it would make Maisy happy (Maisy has intense separation anxiety and has never been away from home before) but framing it as a choice. Always obedient and wanting to do good by her teachers, Izzy agreed but came home crying saying that she didn't want to be with Maisy, because she wanted a break from having to 'be stressed so others can be happy'. This made my heart break, and I know more than anyone that my daughter deserves a chance to be a kid, as in all the lockdowns, she didn't have her usual outlets of sports clubs and had to spend a lot of time with a cranky Luke whose routine had been destroyed and a toddler who was very excited to have her big sis at home. While my husband and I always tried to do 1:1 activities, it admittedly got harder once his furlough ended and I unexpectedly got pregnant with our youngest. Luke also found the baby difficult sensory-wise, so whichever parent wasn't tending to the baby often had to be elsewhere with Luke meaning not as much attention was on Izzy as we would have liked.
I feel so bad that my daughter has had a rough ride, and frankly want to give her a chance to be a little girl instead of an adult. I contacted her teacher, who is aware of the situation with Luke, who agreed that letting Izzy have a break would be a good thing. Today the school spoke to Maisy's mum, informing her of Maisy's room on the trip. I know the girls in the room and they are lovely but she was clearly unhappy. She asked me to ask Izzy again. When I said that it was her choice and I have to respect it, she sent a trade on how I was bringing Izzy up to be intolerant, how Maisy will feel that Izzy has abandoned her and how I would feel if it is my son. She is now considering pulling Maisy out of the trip as she feels she would not cope with her separation anxiety without Izzy.
My husband thinks that it is the school and Maisy's mum's job, not Izzy's, to accommodate her, but her comments are ringing in my head. After all, I am not just Izzy's mum, but also Luke's and as much as I worry about her missing out, I worry about him being isolated too. I know exactly how Maisy's mum feels, and how much it sucks, yet am not doing the one thing to alleviate her pain. AITA?
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 24, 2022 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,576 |
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 24, 2022 | Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 9,199 |
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 24, 2022 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,976 |
I see there are other female children in the family and I'm sure tey'll be taught that they have to just take Tardley's shit as well. Izzy will likely be the one expected to remain the tard's caregiver like you said, though, probably because she's the oldest and everyone else is so used to her being the "mature" one. So clearly she can fuck right off with any aspirations she might have. I guarantee this girl doesn't get to have sleepovers or go to extra-curricular stuff or do any typical 10-year-old girl stuff because she has to be on tard duty when Mommy wants a break.
It's great that the author can relate to the other Moo's plight being the wrangler of a tard, but that doesn't mean she owes the other tard-Moo her child's time and energy. It's time Maisy learns what disappointment is. If her separation anxiety is so bad that her sanity and well-being hinges on one single classmate's undivided attention, she needs to either have her own personal tard chaperone, be home-schooled or be in therapy. The only person whose job it is to drop everything and cater to the tard's every whim is the mother and she's passing the buck to a child.
It's great that the author can relate to the other Moo's plight being the wrangler of a tard, but that doesn't mean she owes the other tard-Moo her child's time and energy. It's time Maisy learns what disappointment is. If her separation anxiety is so bad that her sanity and well-being hinges on one single classmate's undivided attention, she needs to either have her own personal tard chaperone, be home-schooled or be in therapy. The only person whose job it is to drop everything and cater to the tard's every whim is the mother and she's passing the buck to a child.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 25, 2022 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,576 |
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 25, 2022 | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 3,842 |
I hesitate on euthanasia. but I can see withholding care perhaps. all these over the top surgeries to try and keep the tardleys going
two cents ¢¢
CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!
people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong
Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.
The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.
Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.
People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke
Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
two cents ¢¢
CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!
people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong
Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.
The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.
Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.
People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke
Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 25, 2022 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,576 |
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 25, 2022 | Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 2,364 |
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Cambion
The only person whose job it is to drop everything and cater to the tard's every whim is the mother and she's passing the buck to a child.
And it sounds like both mothers are guilty of that. I agree that praising the girl as "mature for her age" is a HUGE red flag...it may be a compliment of the girl's resiliency, but it is a condemnation of her mother and father's parenting "skills." Being forced to grow up too damn fast because the parents can't be bothered to be parents isn't a virtue. It's a damn shame.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 26, 2022 | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 3,842 |
the Redditers had it right: this is parentification. and the fucking moo forced that child into it.
the worst set of 'aita' was a girl whose sister had died and for her entire life this girl could not have one day to herself, could not celebrate anything she had accomplished without having her batshit moo force her to include the dead sister. the picture would be in a reserved chair. the picture would be at this girls birthday party, graduation. every. single. event.
well, this girl finally was getting married and FINALLY telling batshit mommy no to having the damned picture in a reserved chair. I think the post was written by batshit moo and she was completely freaking out and having a meltdown because this surviving daughter had had enough. to their credit, the redditers roasted her up one side and down the other..
two cents ¢¢
CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!
people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong
Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.
The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.
Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.
People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke
Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
the worst set of 'aita' was a girl whose sister had died and for her entire life this girl could not have one day to herself, could not celebrate anything she had accomplished without having her batshit moo force her to include the dead sister. the picture would be in a reserved chair. the picture would be at this girls birthday party, graduation. every. single. event.
well, this girl finally was getting married and FINALLY telling batshit mommy no to having the damned picture in a reserved chair. I think the post was written by batshit moo and she was completely freaking out and having a meltdown because this surviving daughter had had enough. to their credit, the redditers roasted her up one side and down the other..
two cents ¢¢
CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!
people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong
Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.
The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.
Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.
People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke
Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 26, 2022 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,976 |
It'll probably reach a point where we have more awtards and tards than non-tards. Man that's gonna be great when almost every single motherfucker has a debilitating mental illness that they have no idea how to deal with. Paired with parents who raise them to not deal with things rationally and that the world will cater to their whims, man what a shitshow. Imagine having an EMT who refuses to help a dying patient because the patient is wearing orange and orange is one of their 5,000 triggers, or a grocery bagger who MUST absolutely MUST put the milk on top of the bread because it keeps them calm and they will climb the walls and screech if they can't do this.
@twocents, wowww, what a fucking lunatic. I'm sure that breeder thought they were acting completely normal in regard to their dead child and shared on r/AITA to get people to agree with her so she could show her still-living daughter the thread and go, "See? SEE? This is FINE and YOU suck, not me!" I'm sure the loss of their child was traumatic, but to force their existing one to live in their dead kid's shadow and be upset when the kid wants it to stop is sickening. God I hope the daughter went no contact with her crazy Moo after that.
@twocents, wowww, what a fucking lunatic. I'm sure that breeder thought they were acting completely normal in regard to their dead child and shared on r/AITA to get people to agree with her so she could show her still-living daughter the thread and go, "See? SEE? This is FINE and YOU suck, not me!" I'm sure the loss of their child was traumatic, but to force their existing one to live in their dead kid's shadow and be upset when the kid wants it to stop is sickening. God I hope the daughter went no contact with her crazy Moo after that.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 26, 2022 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,576 |
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 26, 2022 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,712 |
If the little girl is old enough to have friends then she can also chose how often to be around them, when to be around them and when she needs a break and whether or not she wants to keep them as friends. Adults need to butt out! This is an important part of her growth as a human being, setting healthy boundaries and trusting herself.
Both of these moos need to stop considering this little girl a support animal to their tards.
Both of these moos need to stop considering this little girl a support animal to their tards.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 27, 2022 | Registered: 19 years ago Posts: 9,199 |
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EMT who refuses to help a dying patient because the patient is wearing orange and orange is one of their 5,000 triggers, or a grocery bagger who MUST absolutely MUST put the milk on top of the bread because it keeps them calm and they will climb the walls and screech if they can't do this.
I think it's a reach that one of these geniuses could be an EMT, but this is a great point overall. Already we are seeing this in the workplace. Not long ago I shared a post from a business-related social network. A woman who defined herself as autistic wrote a looooong post about how she didn't "choose" to be autistic and didn't "choose" to have a huge meltdown at work over nothing, but indeed she did. Her self-described "meltdown" sounded extreme and she admitted screaming and raging for no reason because something "triggered" her. She wrote how "supported" she felt at work because they "accepted" her behavior. Even her CEO weighed in with a neutral but supportive comment a la, "we support you, Tardlina," when you know he was probably thinking, "Jeez, what a pity I cannot fire this psychotic person, because if I do my entire business will tank because I'll be 'canceled' over social media. I'll be bombed by 50,000+ 'disability advocates' who know nothing about the situation and do not have to work with screaming psychos all day."
And Jeez, what about the other workers who get through the day without screaming like a toddler? I personally do not like being around out-of-control, screaming people. It reminds me of my own childhood trauma and while I'm a big girl and I CAN tolerate it, I would be asking my employer for a locking office and/or looking for a new job because I don't want to be around a mentally-unstable, powder keg. We all know autards can occasionally snap and kill people. (Hello Adam Lanza.)
As for the other situation with the moo:
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I'm sure the loss of their child was traumatic, but to force their existing one to live in their dead kid's shadow and be upset when the kid wants it to stop is sickening. God I hope the daughter went no contact with her crazy Moo after that.
In the 70's I lived on a street with a kid who was around five years old. She was an only chyld and her name was "Lacey." (I didn't know it was a stripper name then, just thought it was a strange name.) Anyway, one of my friends used to babysit Lacey. The friend told me the parents had a girl child that died when she was a toddler, prior to Lacey. She told me that Kid#1's name was also "Lacey." That's right--their first kid died, and they gave kid #2 THE SAME NAME AS THE KID WHO DIED. I was only about 12 years old at the time but I remember thinking, Da Fuq? And thinking how messed up that was. I mean, you lose a kid and you give the next one the same name? I wouldn't even do that with a pet. I mean, if you like the name, make it a middle name or something, but at least give the replacement chyld a different name.
I thought the whole thing was creepy. I feel sorry for these kids whose sole job is to make the parents feel better.
ETA: Obligatory disclaimer: The comments about the name Lacey are tongue-in-cheek.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 27, 2022 | Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 2,364 |
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Cambion
I'm sure that breeder thought they were acting completely normal in regard to their dead child and shared on r/AITA to get people to agree with her so she could show her still-living daughter the thread and go, "See? SEE? This is FINE and YOU suck, not me!"
With the way children are worshiped (to the point where people can outright murder their children and get away with it because "they've suffered enough," i.e. there is no suffering worse than losing a child even if you're the one who killed it), I'm sure she did think that. Glad to hear reddit was having none of it.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 27, 2022 | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 3,842 |
Cambion, I have been banned from aita because I pointed out some obvious truths to some of them. I tend to be blunt and no filter. I sometimes wonder if I am on some sort of 'spectrum'. I know I'm not normal but I like my life as is so why try and fix myself..to what end...
and it isn't all chemical shit shows that are responsible for the rise in defectives. They play a part. however, they stopped sterilizing tardleighs and defectives ..the 60's was it? I think we are starting to see the 'rewards' for this batshit ideology. I believe in the almighty gene. and if there's one thing a lot of these defectos do is breed. I think covid did a number on some of them; not necessarily tards, but people with underlying health conditions because their parents had some major defect corrected when they were children, lived, and passed the defect on to their offspring. so covid took them out. which is what these bugs do.
two cents ¢¢
CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!
people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong
Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.
The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.
Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.
People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke
Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
and it isn't all chemical shit shows that are responsible for the rise in defectives. They play a part. however, they stopped sterilizing tardleighs and defectives ..the 60's was it? I think we are starting to see the 'rewards' for this batshit ideology. I believe in the almighty gene. and if there's one thing a lot of these defectos do is breed. I think covid did a number on some of them; not necessarily tards, but people with underlying health conditions because their parents had some major defect corrected when they were children, lived, and passed the defect on to their offspring. so covid took them out. which is what these bugs do.
two cents ¢¢
CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!
people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong
Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.
The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.
Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.
People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke
Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 28, 2022 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,712 |
I have a relative whose spouse has bad genes. He appeared to be 40-45 when he was 27, had a weird dad bod and just looked really old for his age. Their kids are always sick, have had entire organs replaced before maturity, have all been in and out of hospitals since birth, etc. The issue is that most people would put breeding over their bad genes and the suffering of their children.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 28, 2022 | Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 353 |
Doctors used to advise women not to have children if they had any sort of chronic illness. Now that has become taboo, and the thinking is everyone has the right to breed no matter what. I'm sure this is at least part of the reason more women are dying in childbirth, and may also have contributed to the large number of children with various physical and mental issues.It makes sense that an unhealthy body would not be able to grow a healthy normal baybee.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF February 28, 2022 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,712 |
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twocents
Cambion, I have been banned from aita because I pointed out some obvious truths to some of them. I tend to be blunt and no filter. I sometimes wonder if I am on some sort of 'spectrum'.
I consider being banned from aita a compliment. You're definitely on the spectrum of honesty, which those who use white lies so they don't hurt others feelings will never understand.
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Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF March 01, 2022 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,976 |
It doesn't help that so many people feel that reproducing is a basic human right and anyone should be allowed to breed regardless of income, age, housing, physical and mental well-being, safety (like if the other parent is abusive and dangerous), or substance use.
And no doctor will discourage reproducing among defective adults because helping these assholes get pregnant is the doctors' bread and butter. You tell someone with a mile-long list of diseases not to breed, and that's thousands upon thousands of dollars that provider will never make.
Yep it does. I know not all health issues are hereditary (though many are), but surely problems can arise from simply incubating a fetus in a body that is overall sick or not in good shape. Would you hang a brand new chandelier from a rickety termite-infested ceiling? No you would not because of the danger that ceiling won't support that expensive pile of glass. And it's always the sickly idiots who repeatedly get pregnant and miscarry who insist on constantly "TTCing" because they figure if they keep at it, sooner or later they'll get a viable fetus.
And oh sure, it might be viable, but that doesn't mean it's gonna be healthy. When pregnancy #14 sticks, that fetus might come out at 22 weeks, live in NICU for two whole years, get diagnosed with a shit-ton of health problems and need 24/7 oxygen and 45 medications a day just to keep them barely clinging to life and in regular pain... but hey, at least mama and papa got their baybee!
Then cue the regular fundraisers to raise money for whatever expensive treatment Sickleigh needs that insurance won't cover.
And no doctor will discourage reproducing among defective adults because helping these assholes get pregnant is the doctors' bread and butter. You tell someone with a mile-long list of diseases not to breed, and that's thousands upon thousands of dollars that provider will never make.
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ondinette
It makes sense that an unhealthy body would not be able to grow a healthy normal baybee.
Yep it does. I know not all health issues are hereditary (though many are), but surely problems can arise from simply incubating a fetus in a body that is overall sick or not in good shape. Would you hang a brand new chandelier from a rickety termite-infested ceiling? No you would not because of the danger that ceiling won't support that expensive pile of glass. And it's always the sickly idiots who repeatedly get pregnant and miscarry who insist on constantly "TTCing" because they figure if they keep at it, sooner or later they'll get a viable fetus.
And oh sure, it might be viable, but that doesn't mean it's gonna be healthy. When pregnancy #14 sticks, that fetus might come out at 22 weeks, live in NICU for two whole years, get diagnosed with a shit-ton of health problems and need 24/7 oxygen and 45 medications a day just to keep them barely clinging to life and in regular pain... but hey, at least mama and papa got their baybee!
Then cue the regular fundraisers to raise money for whatever expensive treatment Sickleigh needs that insurance won't cover.|
Re: Also from r/AITA: Breeder mad when classmate won't be her tard child's BFF March 01, 2022 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,367 |
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Cambion
It'll probably reach a point where we have more awtards and tards than non-tards. Man that's gonna be great when almost every single motherfucker has a debilitating mental illness that they have no idea how to deal with.
My thought too. My suspicion is that autism-spectrum disorders are affecting more of the younger crowd than anyone wants to admit. And it used to be every village had its idiot, but now it's more like one in every block, and I'm not exaggerating much.
The snowflake syndrome we see with university students, where they need trigger warnings and safe spaces over someone expressing a different viewpoint, sound like the kind of inflexibility and demand for routine autards have. Maybe a lot of today's youth have mild autism that manifests itself this way?
It's enough of a problem when these people start looking for work after graduation that some employers are just starting to back off degree requirements and allow experience in lieu of a degree again. Employers don't want to have to deal with emotional tards who get triggered and cry to a safe space.
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