What are your thoughts on

PETA
ALF
ELF

and the other acitivists that don't want us to own pets.

I ask because I watched a special on PETA last night and the founder Ingrid, stated she did not think people should own animals or pets of any kind.

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That's strange - I've heard this about PETA and Ingrid, but I'm pretty sure Ingrid shares her home with a few cats.

Also, I applied for a computer job with PETA several years ago, and they were big on 'bring your dog to work day'. So unless their overall policy has changed, I'm not sure they are completely against owning a pet. I think it's more about responsible pet ownership, not supporting pet stores (PETCO and Petsmart are two primary targets for PETA), pet adoption vs. breeding, etc.

But yeah, I've heard some people mention this about PETA, too - and it confuses me.

when groups become extremist, they lost support of the majority of people out there so their impact for the 'good' (or bad) of any particular cause becomes automatically 'lost'.
This does not apply to diaperhead countries as it is well proven that 3% of the population can terrorize the other 97%.

Yeah, I've heard that same information (misinformation?) about PETA, and I remember reading a magazine article mentioning animal lovers with a houseful of pets being duped by such organizations that really advocate that all animals should be set free.

And I agree with MWR, domestication does not mean slavery for pets.

Once they are domesticated they are our responsibility.

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You know.. the thing is. Animals have been domesticated and overbred. I know of a very hardcore rescue forum for small animals. Their mentality is that animal is out there needing a home, why not give it one?

This is exactly how I think. Especially since I own birds. So many beautiful, still wild-at-heart parrots are overbred and mistreated by ignorant people year after year. I feel good about the home I provide for my fids. There are millions of mistreated small parrots out there in cramped cages with no toys, no nutritious variety of foods and no daily love and attention. I cannot tell you how much it breaks my heart to see a "cheap" budgie in a small round, poop encrusted cage with nothing but a fucking mirror and a perch to entertain itself. Not to mention the poor large parrots, with the intelligence of a 3 year old. Don't even get me started on cockatoos... It makes me ill to think about.

I have become very passionate about parrots and want to get more involved in helping them one day. I need to get involved with a rescue organization. One day I hope to have the facilities to be able to take in a few unwanted parrots of my own. The torture I've seen these poor creatures endure over the years has turned my heart even more cold toward my fellow, disgusting humans.

Seacreature, my heart just breaks for the fate of so many beautiful, intelligent birds. Birds require special care and lots of attention and yet they are so abused and neglected it makes me sick.

This is why I do support the efforts of PETA to some degree. They are the only group strong enough to take on a corporation like Petco and fight for the benefit of birds. Back in 2005, due to immense pressure from PETA, Petco agreed to stop the sale of large birds. Petco was notorious for supporting bird mills, contributing to a miserable lifetime of confinement for these beautiful creatures. They'd sell large birds to any person who came along, and as we all know, these types of animals are not for the beginning bird "hobbyist". Their care requirements are quite specific and their lifespans are long.

Under the terms of the agreement between the two, Petco no longer sells large birds. They also focus more on an 'adoption before purchase' pet program, and also announced they would benefit rats and mice by *gasp* actually separating them by gender and paying more attention to their dietary and bedding requirements (i.e. not using pine bedding, which is toxic to rats). Can you believe that nonsense? This is common sense, and yet it took pressure from an animal-rights organization just to prevent the unnecessary breeding of these sweet, smart little animals, many of who Petco tossed in FREEZERS to die when they became too sick or too numerous to sell.

i wont say anything more

dont read is you upset easily



http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

http://www.casualgaming.biz/news/27933/PETA-launches-anti-Cooking-Mama-casual-game

http://www.ibabuzz.com/garybogue/2008/08/25/mink-fur-farm-raid-by-alf-300-released-mink-will-starve-in-wild/

from that site

"i am also against keeping animals under such horrific conditions on those unconscionable fur farms … but releasing 300 captive-bred mink into the local ecosystem is NOT the way to deal with it.

These ALF dudes obviously have no idea what they are doing.

Yes indeed, “the natural instincts of these captive animals are completely frustrated,” and there’s no way in hell that these pitiful creatures are going to survive after being “liberated” into the wild.

They are not being “liberated.”

They are being released to starve to death.

The mink may have the instinct to kill … but after being bred and born in captivity for generations, and kept in cages all their lives, they have never learned to hunt. They may be lucky enough to kill a bird or a mouse if they happen upon it, but they haven’t learned how to regularly find and stalk the prey animals they need to kill in order to survive.

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=6a598f49-b24c-4eb6-8af3-9d3f7ee0113b

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

At one time (1980's) PETA had my support, but no longer. They are one of those groups that started out (or appeared to) for the right reasons, like their name would suggest, and then became infiltrated with a bunch of radical nutcases. They have WAY too extreme philosophies to suit my tastes. Their very public political involvement in nearly every semi-related, near possible, might-sorta-could be, or controversial animal related headline has gotten way out of hand too such as the following:

1) The "veggie diet" and ridiculous letter that they sent to the extremely obese little boy's mother (and to the local paper, among other key targets) in North Carolina last year, which basically blamed meat products on his obesity,and the "diet" that they published in a newspaper. The child had been removed from his home and was being forced to have weight reduction surgery by the state. It was actually a pitiful case and failure of the kyddie welfare system in the case. PETA'S involvement in it was EXTREMELY uncalled for and I would imagine quite hurtful, even if it did happen to a pathetic moocow in this instance.

2) The recommendation of a "veggie prison diet" that they sent to the chief of police who was holding the man who murdered his GF (dismembered her), but pretended that he was going to consume her body to get off on a crazy plea. PETA blamed his rage and cold blooded murder on his meat consumption. This of course gave the man's defense attorney an immediate bullshit alternative to build or add to this cold blooded murderer's defense, but I don't know what became of it. I just remember thinking that if it had been MY sister all cut up in the kitchen, I would have been HIGHLY pissed off at some ridiculous interference of a disinterested 3rd party like that, in order to further their unrelated agenda.

3)Possibly one of the most outrageous political and public displays of late was that letter to Ben and Jerry's icecream that they start using HUMAN BREAST MILK, rather than cow's milk in their ice cream.


There have been so many others over the years, but these recent three popped into my mind. This is nothing more than seeking political publicity on controversial or downright outlandish and anger provoking issues, rather than giving a rat's ass about the treatment of animals. I believe that their motivation is money and greed and the more shit that they can stir up, the more nutcases are out there who will open their checkbooks. PETA lost my respect and any legitimacy they may have had at one time a long long time ago. IMHO.

I tend to agree with you on PETA's insanity, Kim. While they've done many great things for animals, their tendancy to go completely overboard turns me off.

AND...

Sorry, forgot to comment on RNB's lovely post... Yes! I remember that case with Petco and their abuse! As far as birds, now all they have are cockatiels (I call them the goldfish of birds, very tolerant of abuse, poor dears), budgies and of course the pretty and full of personality until you get them home and the scream their heads off because you don't know how to deal with them properly...SUN CONURES. I hate seeing those poor things there.

The rats and mice thing pisses me off to no end as well. Talk about THE most misunderstood animals. I'd love to see a parody where the rats are in charge and it's time to kill off the over breeding humans. Wouldn't that be cool?

Seacreature Wrote:
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>
> The rats and mice thing pisses me off to no end as
> well. Talk about THE most misunderstood animals.
> I'd love to see a parody where the rats are in
> charge and it's time to kill off the over breeding
> humans. Wouldn't that be cool?

It would indeed! I'd pay to see that. Rats are better mothers than human moomies, too - and I have proof! One of my female rescues had a litter, and not only did she take good care of the babies, she'd give them a solid bite if they tried to nurse past weaning age! The human-moo-nursing-nazis let the kiddies boobie-feed until they're old enough to ask for it!

Domestication seems like a pretty good deal for the three cats and two dogs that I go to work for every day. :-)

PETA really has lost the plot over the last few years. Every time I see their name in a headline now, I start cringing ... WTF-ery ahead.

dogs have been with us humans for a long time, so has domestic cats. the problem is in a lot of cases there is less genetic drift in some domestic breeds..

which causes problems.. king charles spaniels they have a condition where their brain keeps growing, its a genetic flaw.. because they are inbred so much.. so while i dont like to see animals in pain, i sometimes agree with some of the policies, but others i disagree with

animal testing for makeups, wrong, for medical that could be valid..

the answer there isnt one.. not really once the radicals get in charge

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I'd rather talk about this another time. I've had a real sucky day.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

RatsNotBrats Wrote:
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> That's strange - I've heard this about PETA and
> Ingrid, but I'm pretty sure Ingrid shares her home
> with a few cats.
>
> Also, I applied for a computer job with PETA
> several years ago, and they were big on 'bring
> your dog to work day'. So unless their overall
> policy has changed, I'm not sure they are
> completely against owning a pet. I think it's
> more about responsible pet ownership, not
> supporting pet stores (PETCO and Petsmart are two
> primary targets for PETA), pet adoption vs.
> breeding, etc.
>
> But yeah, I've heard some people mention this
> about PETA, too - and it confuses me.


Ingrid stated she had no animals and no children. She was sterilized at I think age 22.
They showed her in her home and she had no animals around her.
She made mention several times that she disagreed with pet ownership.
I was already turned off about the replacement of cows milk, with human breast milk suggestion.

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I think that we have MORE than enough humans incarcerated for crimes who could be used in drug testing to leave the animals alone. It could be on a voluntary basis with some prison perks thrown in or perhaps an early release for non violent offenders. Humans participate in drug trials all of the time and are paid for their time, so why not on everything? There are PLENTY of people who are contemplating committing suicide, but being a test subject in a medical experiment might would give them something positve to do with their lives and besides, they might not die or even want to die afterwards. There are already people who donate organs, while they are still alive, donate bone marrow, give blood, etc....so this is just a step further. There are also people with terminal illnesses who have no other hope than an experimental treatment, so I don't see what the big deal is about human testing. I would volunteer for it if given the right set of circumstances.

Even after they test the poor animals into an early grave, they STILL don't generally know how a human will react to the same drug, or a female, or a kyd, etc.....so I think that if they just go straight to human testing and leave out the middle man(animals) EVERYONE would be better off, except the participants in failed experiments sometimes maybe. I don't EVER think that products like cleaning supplies, cosmetics, etc.....should be sprayed into the eyes of animals and such, because there are enough NON animal tests which can reveal if ammonia will blind a person, for instance. I am not against animal testing for various drugs that will cure disease or make break throughs in paralysis or regeneration of body parts, but I think that human experimentation would be faster, more accurate, and certainly better monitored.

Sometimes I think that they have a no care attitude if they are careless or make unnecessary mistakes, because they have a million lab rats who "don't matter". If their test subjects were humans, then MAYBE they would get off of their asses and stop experimenting (on the dime of public grants and private donations) for DECADES and find a damned cure already. Just HOW long have we witnessed the "Jerry's kids" telethon and HOW many MILLIONS have they raised? How many animals have they had tested to death? I don't know the answers to those questions, but I would say that a conservative guess would be 30+ years, BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, millions of animals, yet.......Muscular Dystrophy lives on....The best "poster kyd" would be a human test subject, IMO.

i did say i dont know. i can see both points.. the answer i havent a clue

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Enslaved, indeed, MWR! Haha!

Quote

One of my female rescues had a litter, and not only did she take good care of the babies, she'd give them a solid bite if they tried to nurse past weaning age!

That is SO cute! I love rat babies so much.

I will NOT give PETA the time of day, let alone any money or resources. For animal welfare, I give money to the local SPCA chapter. I am a proud card-carrying carnivore.

I'm definitely not for PETA...especially not after that lovely stunt they pulled a long time ago where they decided to break into some poor guy's farm and set his 'imprisoned' cattle free. They all walked into traffic and died. Yeah...fucking morons. PETA members, from what I can tell, are extremists and are very mentally unstable

I have no clue what the other two are...

Seacreature: DH and I were mesmerized by a juvie sun conure at the pet store last weekend. He or she had more personality and charm than most people I know. We were entranced by his/her obvious intelligence and interactive nature. At $600, though...er...nope.

I personally find PETA to be obnoxious. There are better ways to serve animals than with their often violence-porn-y methods.

ALF and ELF have no stock with me. They often disrupt scientific work in progress or damage others' private property. There are more constructive ways to register one's complaint, the best being money donated to the opposing cause or volunteer work. I think a lot of ALF/ELF people have a narcissistic thing going on and get off on their stunts. I've known some people like that, and they're nasty. But given a chance to "save" an animal from a medical research lab, suddenly they're all dedicated and all.

Bah.

watch the film 28 days later.

animal liberation, brings about well you have seen the film probably..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Clem, you summed up PETA's methods nicely these days - violent and porn-y.

MWR, it's a deal! They're getting BIG. I need to take some photos. I think your critters will be happy with the kindercrap tunnel!

Oh, and the 'enslaved' comment is very funny. I'm pretty sure if my rats could give PETA an interview, they'd point out politely that they'd never choose to leave their cushy, toy-filled, well-fed environment. All their needs are met and then some. In fact, if there's a slave in the equation, it's certainly ME, not them.