A note to you trolls

I have seen and been involved with some of the troll wars that have/are gone/going on here on bratfree.

My personal opinion is to ignore these people. They have succumbed to the stockholm syndrome and/or have a severe case of crab in the bucket-itis. You cannot deter them with facts, opinions or anything of any intellectual value.

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Furthermore (and I may add to this in the future) the sappy arguments trolls use just bolster my opinion that they are devoid of rational deductive reasoning. They cannot infer anything from what is said: they lack the ability to read between the lines. They are also famous for 'getting things wrong' totally and completely as well.

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Their bingo argument (which sends us over the proverbial edge) is that we are jealous and cannot sprogg and just rant here for that reason. This reasoning is coloured by their own rationale which is rooted in their reproductive organs which is seemingly what they use to think with. Coloured: since we are jealous, therefore our anger and angst comes from this. Nothing could be further from the truth. We do not like kids. Some of us realize that as such (and many times for other reasons) we would NOT make good parents. To bring a child into a household with parent(s) who did NOT want kids, who did NOT like kids would be tantamount to shooting at dynamite. I do not want to wreck the life of a child, that is completely and totally unfair. I would NOT make a good parent in any way, shape, or form. Therefore I am smart enough to not have kids. I have thought about it from time to time. Most of us have: we usually just come to the same conclusion, we do not want kids.

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To peg murders, kidnappings, etc of children to the sole province of the childfree is your typical breeder kneejerk reaction. Again, I point to my earlier comment, 'do not confuse breeders with facts'. The vast majority of the stories we read, the child dies at the hands of their parent(s), boyfriend, girlfriend either through deliberate action or deliberate (or not) ignorance or so called forgetfulness (child left to bake in a car for example). How many of these so called 'accidents' are not, only these perpetrators know. The 'system' seems to be unwilling to grill these 'grieving' parent(s).

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What we seem to regard as 'quaint' tradition has, over my years of observation, been developed to primarily insure a child will have the best possible chance (and I do mean chance) at succeeding in life. From being adequately fed, housed, and clothed, to an ample education, a child is best served by an intact family. In their insane, greedy rush of "I want I want I want" baby rabies, even this simple dictum is cast aside to serve the mommies obsession with having her very own child to destroy. Men are not needed in her mind (although statistics and studies do say otherwise: even daycare is destructive), only the almighty child. This drifts into 'what is truly in the best interest of the child'. I repeat: the best interest of a child is served by an intact family, with a mom & dad. So, for you trolls who pat yourselves on the back that you have achieved superior status by merely producing your very own child (probably without benefit of marriage) think (if you can): are you truly behaving in the best interest of a child or just serving your own selfish whims. ....... Those of us who do not want our own kids would probably kill someone if they caught them injuring a child.

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Conclusion: we are smart enough not to have children. You trolls: why do you have children. I doubt you can answer the question.

This will be subject to editing as I think of additional points.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

i am going to copy that twocents and post it on my blog. its good,


i personally would put, while we may dislike kids sometimes with a passion, we would NEVER deliberatly hurt them, in fact we would report things like that if we knew it was real and not just hot air.

Not one of us would like to see anyone hurt, due to negligence, or abuse. I personally have reported a few potential abusive parents (and in one case they did abuse their kid),

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I can somewhat understand where breeders stand. I would not want to be them under any circumstances. I would hate my life. Idea of having even 1 kid is way more than I could or would handle.

They may not be jealous. I think they are pissed. They bought the societal bullshit to breed, we did not. Poor guy hates rich guy for doing well. Most CF had to defend the choice to not sprog. Breeders never had to do that.

Ignoring stupid breeder trolls is a good idea. I was trying to get a good argument out of Sabine, but then her posts disappeared. She never did have anything convincing to say. I should have never bothered.

Good points made by all, especially how to deal with trolls. While I may (or may not, usually) read those threads from trolls (i.e. Sabine) for nothing more than entertainment value, I have never had the desire to reply to them. When I see a troll thread with 40 or 50 responses, I find myself saddened a bit because we CF have better things to do than bicker with them.

And an important point I want make about being CF is that being CF doesn't make us child-haters necessarily. It means we don't want to have children of our own, nothing more. Some here have stronger feelings about kyds than others, which is all fine - to each his own. But also recognize, and I know this would throw a big monkey wrench into those breeders who hold certain stereotyes about us CF, that some of CF actually don't mind being around kyds under certain circumstances, even seek out being around kyds. I have posted here a few times that I do volunteer work in the local school Scrabble program. While my day-to-day involvement in that program is not a lot when compared to having and raising one's own kyds, I do happen to like it. I get to work with kyds behaving at their best and helping them improve their game. I have the help of the teacher/coaches (one of them CF herself) to keep any bad behavior of the kyds in check. And, most ironically, it is because I am CF that I am able to participate in this program to begin with! If I were not CF, I would have to work full-time and not be able to devote the needed time to visit these schools frequently.

So to all you breeders, when your kyd comes home from school all happy, it may because some CF person has devoted his unpaid time to work with your kyd in an activity s/he likes and is getting better at because of me.

deegee, very good input and I concur. For me, the honest fact is there are very few kids I actually wouldn't mind being around. And it's only because today's children are simply too ill-behaved to tolerate. Very few are raised and taught to behave like civilized and considerate human beings. I do not seek to be with them, I have no interest in them what-so-ever, never have. However, the thought of a child being harmed or abused makes me very angry, and I have and will intervene if I feel necessary (I'm a medic).

The childed need not waste one iota of concern for the welfare of their children where the childfree are concerned.

i beleive my esteemed colleagues (and friends) are quite correct.

there are a few i like, my cousins kids, they are a delight, my other cousins kids are hellions. crooked as a corkscrew..

my criteria is badly behaved kids, they annoy me intensely, i have had 7 year old kids coming up behind me calling me out loud hello fatty, going to macdonalds. these are the kids i hate the ones i rant about.

i dont mind and i am sure none of us really minds nicely behaved kids. abuse is bad for anyone,

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Very good.

For me though, it's my hatred of parental hubris that drives me. The self-centredness, the competition for attention and praise, the look-at-me-ness. The pretence that everything's 'what about the children' when in fact everyone knows the agenda is 'what about me'. The presumption that 'everyone' adores kiddies, and that if we do not get all excited about them then we are evil... though even a moron can see that it's almost exclusively parents themselves who are true child haters and harmers. It's the cult of the child that we are all expected to sign-up to... and that any dissent against joining in wholeheartedly is evil and must be stamped-out because it weakens their power base.

All the lies. All the terrible, nasty, selfish lies they tell. They live entirely in denial, so many of them.

As for kids themselves, meh, who cares. In person they just don't even register on my radar as anything worthy of any form of particular attention. I prefer adults. Especially smart funny ones who look like movie stars, now that I think of it.

And it is fascinating how the childed cling to Bratfree. They are there reading this stuff day after day... because so much of what we write is the honest truth. Some will nod and grin at some of it, others might feel guilty and cry, but they'll mostly keep it their own dirty secret. I'm not saying the board makes any of them regret having kids -- it takes a hell of a lot more than our comments to do that when it happens. Or at least I'd hope so. But sometimes what we say hits home. We hold up a mirror to them and they take a look and hate what they see. This is the stuff that makes them scream out and clamp their hands over their ears and eyes and try to make us shut up. They know it's all true, but they try to shout it out of their own heads by repeating the mantras they've been taught. And so they sign in and have a go at us, and it's all really terribly boring because it just underlines the lunacy of The. Whole. Entire. Thing.

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"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

Thanks Mercurior., all of you. Once in a while I have a very lucid moment.
I do not write these things with a light heart.
I did say I would add things as I went along: of course, most of what I say we know.. we know all too well.
I might do well to copy my own script into notepad and work on it.
Enjoy life... I love watching the sunset as it is the end of a lovely day. And the sun come up.. that I have lived through the night to watch it rise.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

Nicely said, twocents. Like others, I read the troll posts, but have zero interest in engaging in conversation with them, much like I avoid conversations with rabid fundies, crazy homeless people, etc. There's nothing to be gained in arguing with an irrational person who will not, or cannot, thoughtfully listen to a different point of view.