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It's finally here- kids dictate the household - "Consensual Living"

Posted by Rose Red 
It's finally here- kids dictate the household - "Consensual Living"
March 31, 2009
It's your call, kid
According to the growing consensual living movement, parents and children have equal say in family life - even at bedtime, Adriana Barton reports

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

March 31, 2009 at 4:53 AM EDT

VANCOUVER — One morning last September, Melanie Leavey's six-year-old daughter, Savannah, insisted on wearing a Halloween cat costume instead of normal clothes. She wore it all day long, and the next too. Eventually, she agreed to take off the costume so it could be washed, but the minute it was laundered, she pulled it on again. Weeks passed, then months. It wasn't until February, almost six months later, that Savannah finally decided to put the cat costume to rest.

But at no point did her mother try to make Savannah stop wearing it, says Ms. Leavey, who lives in Burlington, Ont., with her husband Brandt, Savannah and Sebastian, age 4.

Getting Savannah dressed in the morning had long been a battle. "I tried all the mainstream parenting guru advice, but nothing worked," she says.

So, Ms. Leavey began to practise consensual living, a set of principles designed to help family members understand each other's feelings and meet one another's needs.


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Since Melanie Leavey – with husband Brandt, son Sebastian and daughter Savannah – adopted consensual living practices, she says she no longer struggles daily to get her daughter dressed. (PETER POWER/THE GLOBE AND MAIL)

Ever since her daughter got the chance to assert her autonomy in her clothing choices, Ms. Leavey says, helping her get dressed in the morning has been "a piece of cake."

In the consensual living model, father doesn't know best. Neither does mom. Instead, parents and children are equal partners in family life, according to the principles laid out at consensual-living.com.

Founded in 2006 by a group of families in North Carolina, consensual living is gaining ground in alternative parenting communities and online, including a Yahoo group with about 900 members.

Devotees study books such as Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn and Marshall Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication, and they consider parenting based on punishment and reward structures to be "coercive."

In contrast, "consensual" parenting is non-hierarchical.

"When parents put themselves in the role as authorities, they may believe they are doing it 'for the child's good,' " writes one of the movement's co-founders, Anna Brown, "but they could be missing an opportunity to have more connected relationships with their children."

Lindsay Hollett of Nanaimo, B.C., says that she began to snap less with her husband, Craig, and her 18-month-old daughter, Kahlan, after she adopted the consensual-living mindset about a year ago.

Her days became more relaxed when she focused more on Kahlan's needs, she says. If she had a doctor's appointment but her daughter was feeling grumpy, for example, Ms. Hollett would not force Kahlan to wait with her to see the doctor. Instead, Ms. Hollett might cancel the appointment or arrange alternative child care, she says.

Listening to her child's feelings doesn't mean that every last thing is negotiable, such as being strapped in a car seat, she says. But if they have to go somewhere, she adds, "I'll do everything I can to make the car-seat ride more comfortable."

For now, Ms. Hollett says, the onus is on her to be a role model for consensual living principles such as empathy and mutual respect for her daughter. As Kahlan grows older, though, "it won't just be me empathizing with her."

Understanding a child's developmental stage is a crucial aspect of parenting, according to Alyson Schafer, a Toronto-based psychotherapist and author of Breaking the Good Mom Myth and the recently released Honey, I Wrecked the Kids.

But, she adds, children must be taught to respect a higher authority, such as social expectations. Cancelling an appointment because of a child's mood sends the wrong message, Ms. Schafer says. "It's a parent's job to socialize a child."

Biological needs should be non-negotiable as well, Ms. Schafer says. For example, it doesn't make sense to allow a three-year-old to decide for himself when he's tired - a recent subject of debate on the consensual living Yahoo group.

"Little bodies need to sleep," Ms. Schafer says.

Parents who don't set limits with their children risk pampering their them, Ms. Schafer says, "and that is basically the root of adult neurotic behaviour."

Echota Keller, a mother in Langley, B.C., says that she creates boundaries with her three-year-old son, Kiernen, while "giving him the space to be his own person."

In daily life, she makes a practice of letting him know what her intentions are, she says, "and asking him if that's going to work for him."

Recently, the principles of consensual living have helped her cope with her son's hitting stage, she says.

When Kiernen strikes another child, Ms. Keller asks him what he's feeling and whether he'd like to express his anger or frustration in another way, such as using words or hitting a pillow.

She tells him it's not okay to hit others, but she and her husband, Josh, do not force Kiernen to say he's sorry. "If he's going to apologize, we want it to be authentic," Ms. Keller says.

According to Ms. Leavey of Burlington, using consensual living with small children is a time-consuming process, but the principles are equally well suited to children and adults.

The biggest shift in family life has been to make sure everyone is heard, Ms. Leavey says. The family now works as a cohesive unit, she adds. "There are many less tantrums - and not just on the children's part."
When your little bastard has reached a "hitting stage", you're doing something wrong. When you refuse to make him apologize for hitting another child, you're doing something very wrong.

Damn breeders.
Amazing doh face. Pay attention "Consensual-living" breeders, for I will tell you a story. Once upon a time I was a six-year-old just like the girl in the article (or 4, or 7, it does not really matter the age I was) and if I dared telling any of my parents: "No, I will not wear/do/eat that" I just had to look them in the eye and there it was, what I called "The look of Death". I know you do not know what this means, since you are known for your advocacy of Gentle-Discipline (utter rubbish, by the way) but I will translate, that meant: "Do it now, no complaints, we are not negotiating, that was an order".
Now jump two decades or so into the future, we are back into the present and I may tell you I am neither a psycho nor I have any other mental problems because of that. In the old days that was called parenting, sons and daughters respected the elders and learnt discipline and good manners, alas, those days are gone. God, I miss the old times...

P.S. Now go and tell a Silverback gorilla it has to forget life as it was, now is a non-hierarchical business. :eh??
Oh, lazy parenting has a name now....Consensual Living......
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Since Melanie Leavey – with husband Brandt, son Sebastian and daughter Savannah – adopted consensual living practices, she says she no longer struggles daily to get her daughter dressed. (PETER POWER/THE GLOBE AND MAIL)

Ever since her daughter got the chance to assert her autonomy in her clothing choices, Ms. Leavey says, helping her get dressed in the morning has been "a piece of cake."
Yanno, if I'd pulled that crap when I was a child, my mother would have said somethink like "You will put those clothes on RIGHT NOW and if you don't, you'll be wearing my hand print on your ass for a week!"
My parents didn't take any crap from me or my siblings. No, they Did Their Job, no matter how much effort they had to put into it.

Consensual Living....what a bunch of GARBAGE. It's nothing but a bunch of lazy, wimpy breeders giving in to their whiny, bratty kids.
Sounds like it should be spanking time in the Leavey / Hollett / Keller households! If these stupid weak moos can't do it, they can pay me and I'll do it. For the good of society. So we won't have to tolerate their spoiled brats.
I was hoping this little tidbit was from, "The Onion." *SIGH* I guess not.

You know what my parents would have done had getting dressed in the mornings been a chore for my mom? They'd have taken all my clothes and burned them in a pile in the yard. I SHIT YOU NOT.

What the fuck is this???!?!?!? "In daily life, she makes a practice of letting him know what her intentions are, she says, "and asking him if that's going to work for him."

And this is precious: "When Kiernen strikes another child, Ms. Keller asks him what he's feeling and whether he'd like to express his anger or frustration in another way, such as using words or hitting a pillow." What in fucking fuck is this woman thinking?

And can you see thse little assholes in the work place one day after having practived this style of "famblee values???" "..................a set of principles designed to help family members understand each other's feelings and meet one another's needs." YEA, RIGHT!!!!

My parents had the philosophy, "Its our way or the highway, you live under this roof, you abide by the house rules." Worked for me!
Re: It's finally here- kids dictate the household - "Consensual Living"
March 31, 2009
It's an interesting phenomenon- one kid punches another in the face, and doesn't have to say sorry. Victim then tries it himself, since apprently it's ok....and thus since there is no accountability we have a generation of pre-school hedonists.
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Rose Red
It's an interesting phenomenon- one kid punches another in the face, and doesn't have to say sorry. Victim then tries it himself, since apprently it's ok....and thus since there is no accountability we have a generation of pre-school hedonists.

And breeders wondered why their kids are outta control. They always complained "I've given them everything they want, paid attention to them, not punishing them because it'll hurt their feelings, not shushing because it'll stifled their creativity, and make him/her feel good about him/herself. What I've done wrong?!?" Gee, I wonder why. eye rolling smiley
My nephew went through a 'hitting stage' when he was three. After months of ineffectual talking, timeouts, etc. I finally lost it, put him over my knee and whacked his ass three times with the palm of my hand. He never hit anyone again. Although my sister (not his mother) acted like I was a child abuser.
Re: It's finally here- kids dictate the household - "Consensual Living"
March 31, 2009
"When Kiernen strikes another child, Ms. Keller asks him what he's feeling and whether he'd like to express his anger or frustration in another way, such as using words or hitting a pillow."

Be sure to ask him that when he gets older and shoots someone with a gun. These parents are brainless, spineless idiots who are raising a generation of spoiled brats.

______________

- The human gene pool could use a little chlorine
Re: It's finally here- kids dictate the household - "Consensual Living"
March 31, 2009
As someone on Fark said, that kid is going to get the stuffing knocked out of him.
Until I was 12, my clothing was laid out for me by my mother or the babysitter. I had no say with what I was going to wear to school and felt it was a treat if I was allowed to wear pants instead of dresses so I could play on the monkey bars during recess.

Even when I was 16, my mother made it clear how she did not like this t-shirt I got which said, "Serious student...If you believe that, you will believe anything." My mom felt it was not respectful to my teachers. I was not allowed to wear it again to school.

My mother worked with a woman who allowed her two-year-old to stay up until all hours and then screamed endlessly when she was finally dumped in her crib. I hated being around those people.

Whatever happened to instilling manners and discipline in a child? As for apologies, my mother did not care if I meant it or not. I was expected to say I was sorry if I did something bad. Most of today's parents are nothing but spineless breeders. I do fear for the future with the crap these people are putting out there.
Re: It's finally here- kids dictate the household - "Consensual Living"
March 31, 2009
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Muslimah
My mother worked with a woman who allowed her two-year-old to stay up until all hours and then screamed endlessly when she was finally dumped in her crib.

And this crap, my dear, is why I stopped nannying.
THIS STUFF IS BULLSHIT!ranting If I had DARED tell my mother I didn't like something my parents had bought for me, especially clothing, I would have got beaten within an inch of my life. Sure, I had input when my clothes were purchased, but my mum made the final decision.

I had a friend who occaisionally came to dinner and she asked for something besides what my mum was serving. I took it to a verbal level because I was taught that you eat what is put onto your plate and STFU about it. I might have taken it to the physical level because I was really pissed, but I knew that if I hauled off and slapped the kid's face (which I still think she richly deserved, BTW), my mum would have cleaned the floor with me, even at 18. I was NOT allowed to hit, kick, scratch, or bite another kid unless they attacked me (then all bets were off lol).

What the fuck are these lazy asshole breeders teaching their brats??!! Consensual living, my ass!angry flipping off breeders!
This concept isn't a new one, I read a book printed decades ago that mentioned a movement with this kind of goal. And I thought it was so utterly ridiculous it would never come to pass...

I really gotta stop thinking that.
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CFTeen
This concept isn't a new one, I read a book printed decades ago that mentioned a movement with this kind of goal. And I thought it was so utterly ridiculous it would never come to pass...

I really gotta stop thinking that.

Yep, because when it comes to being stupid and outragious, breeders will exceed your imagination and expectations every time.
I agree with Merlyn because I eat food what is served, that's all. Back in the days, you negotiate with a parent and you'll negotiate with a whip and that's what I get.

When the hell since kids have rights over parents in the household. I never been taught like that - this "Consensual Living" thing. What about parents who bought the house and they pay the bills and food and dues.

"Its our way or the highway, you live under this roof, you abide by the house rules."
This is how it's meant to be, not been 'Diaperwhipped'.

This is why I do not want kids and add to this list CF Folks: Because in this society, children have more rights over parents and I got proof, ban smacking, whipping. Saying "NO" hurts feelings. Instead they use stupid Gentle Dicipline (which never works). If they use classic dicipline (usually real parents), they get crucified especially by those Gentle Dicipline breeders (which they need a kick in the breeder butt).
Re: It's finally here- kids dictate the household - "Consensual Living"
March 31, 2009
I can't imagine going back to teaching these days with snowflakes like this bubbling up through the grades. No. Way.

I can see giving kids disciplines choices to give them a tiny bit of autonomy--like the choice to wear the black pants OR the blue pants. But that's as far as I would go. Who has time to do all this ridiculous pandering? They are doing NO favors to the kid...and everyone who has to deal with his undisciplined self down the road.
"Consensual" parenting my white ass. Try "capitulation" breeding instead.
OH HELL NO!! My mom told both my brother and me frequently, "This is not a democracy, this is a dictatorship and I am the dictator. If you don't like it, there's the door!" and also followed through on the discipline, usually in the form of her hand swatting our tails, no matter what location (in public or at home). After spending last Saturday evening with my husband and his brother, his brother's wife, and their 3 1/2 year old, it reinforced to both my husband and me why we are happily child-free! Namely, the couple WILL NOT DISCIPLINE THEIR CHILD!! They're trying this negotiation-style crap and this kid is going to become a MAJOR hellion and soon! I was THIS close to turning that kid over my knee and spanking her myself, TRULY giving her something to whine and cry about! Did I also happen to mention that this kid didn't wean from breastfeeding until she was about 2 1/2 and they did that co-sleeping garbage? UGH!! Thank you for listening to my vent.
Re: It's finally here- kids dictate the household - "Consensual Living"
March 31, 2009
One word: diaper-whipping!doh face

What's more, children are NOT mentally developed ENOUGH to lead so-called "consensual living" with their own parents!!!!!

One good example: kids MUST eat vegetables at dinner - if they get to eat junk food all they want to, they are going to be morbidly OBESE with a long list of health problems, too. And yes, they will blame the parunts for it at the very end.eye rolling smiley
Re: It's finally here- kids dictate the household - "Consensual Living"
March 31, 2009
Aside from the utter BULLSHIT of this whole thing, the label "consensual living" has a creepy, incestuous tone, like...consensual sex. With the way things are going in our society, I wouldn't be surprised if it were happening in these cosleeping, titfeeding famblees.

Ewwwwwwwwwww

two faces puking two faces puking two faces puking two faces puking two faces puking
ha ha good one ,april fools, this has to be a joke
Re: It's finally here- kids dictate the household - "Consensual Living"
April 01, 2009
No Roger, found it on a news site yesterday. doesn't make it gospel, but it's the next logical step after "attachment parenting."
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