1663 Breeding Your Pet

but, as i said, only in the animal case, sheesh, so its ok to sterilise dogs and cats, and only all puppy farms and kitty farms to breed animals, and sell them to you for hundreds, no wonder these farms want you to spay the pets, it would make them more money.

my 2 dogs both bitches cant be bred from, they are too small, thing is we keep them away from male dogs.. but if we did want to breed from them, we would just put them with a male and if something did happen ok, BUT, the puppies would be MINE, and i would give them to people i liked or vetted.

your putting human rules on animals, which is silly, would you stop wild birds or wild animals from doing that, no. but whats the difference between human pets and wild animals. you are putting your own personal view onto an animal, its rape, does that mean all animals in the wild rape each other..

so would you rather pay lots of money for a pet, or have your own as a continuity, animals that adore you, because they have been with you from birth, to death, and you know that they will have not been abused, or had genetic problems from the enforced breeding that goes on in these breeding farms.


YOU CANNOT call what animals do RAPE, both my female dogs have been known to hump each other.. are they lesbians, no they arent,

yes lets have only a few groups of people in control of all the breeding rights, and they can gouge money from you, there are animal shelters, but, thats not the problem, its the people who put one female with one male then another, all these breeding farms do is want to make money, thats all. so you are actaully condoning the forced breeding. wouldnt it be best to bring up animals in a loving home, in a generational way.

RAPE is an emotive word, which is totally wrong when used to describe animals, real rape victims, would be appalled that such a heinous act could be linked to cats and dogs, making their pain and suffering the equal to an animals. i know several rape victims before you say anything, should that male cat be arrested, and locked up, no they are animals, i personally want lots of animals around me, preferably related so i can have polly the fifth, with me when i am very old.

we are humans, we have self knowledge and self awareness, to make the decision to breed or not to breed, animals may not think like us, they may not act like us, so why put our own self awareness and self knowledge onto them. there can be medical reasons why animals shouldnt be bred from, too small, but there is a simple thing, keep the animals inside, or only have females, or only males.. animals are not humans, and humans are not animals.

rape is one of the worst things that can happen to a human, (men get raped as well).. but to call what animals do rape, (the humans that do it are animals) its degrading to the true sufferers of rape.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Oh, I hear you guys on this subject! ;_; We have a small pet store near my apartment where I go to get my featherbabies' wings clipped. Roque (peachface lovebird) and Nushi (cockatoo) were taken in, got their wings done, and when the cashier guy who does their wings brought them out, he mentioned to me that their breeding stock needed new mates! HELL NO! I am not going to expose my poor pets to Lord knows what kind of diseases just so pet stores can get a steady stream of birds to sell! It's just plain cruel...
~Tokio Fraulein

but if you had some of your own you would know where they were, and they would be loved just as much as shop bought ones.. wouldnt you.. just imagine you can have several of those birds, nothing as nice as having many pets.

selling the offspring just for money, to sending them out for breeding to make money is prostitution,

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

right, so they are working the barter system or a prostitution set up in order to pay for the laptop. What sort of mentality is that, what happens if the poor animal need vetinary care., where do you get the money to pay for that, breed the little sod again? and then next time you want to upgrade your computer yet again. so turning the creature into a baby (puppy) factory for your own gratification?

I have dogs but would never use them as a money making facility. I would like more dogs around the place but apart from the cost of feeding them properly, and if they did have puppies, it would not be done for the reason above, but the fact that I love my dogs and would only let suitable people have one.

You cannot breed too closely either you have have to introduce new male at least or you would end up with mental moronic dogs around which inturn could be dangerous.

There is nothing wrong to breed dogs for your own selves. too much spaying and neutering only waters down the gene pool.

Take it from someone who knows- It is very expensive, and a lot of work to raise a litter of healthy puppies. I was lucky that all of mine were born healthy. However, things happen that aren't obvious to the naked eye. One of my dogs is epileptic, and has a bladder condition. He's also prone to infections due to allergies. He's on meds, and we take it one day at a time. Usually, he's as frisky as the others, but he has his bad days, too. Do not breed your pets unless you have the time, money, and are willing to keep any that you can't place in good homes. Their lives depend on it. Forget about taking any vacations- no kennel can accommidate your litter, and a pet spa will cost you a fortune. You have to feed them quality food. In my case, that runs about $120 per month. License fees are a killer. I have a kennel license (which I had to buy to allow me to have 6 dogs). That stupid piece of paper was $640. That's in addition to their regular dog licences. It's EXPENSIVE!!! Vet bills, routine vaccinations, training, etc. It adds up. Know what you're getting into before you're stuck.

but if i had the room, and the pennies, i would i love the animals so much, more than most humans..

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I wish I had, like, 90 cats. I wish I could sleep under a blanket of cats every night. Fortunately, I know better. Unfortunately, everyone else I know doesn't, and every "I need a new home for my cat" announcement comes my way, and I have to go through the whole "I don't have room", "I don't have the money", and "My old cat couldn't take it." spiel, sometimes with the same folks over and over. It really bums me out because it's just another reminder of how thoughtless and lazy most people are. I mean, come on, how hard is it to care for a cat? You scoop out the litter box, fill the food and water, and pet it once in a while.

yes, i would love 6 or 7 of them, maybe a rest home for cats and dogs.. neutered ones after being ditched by the breeders.. and not caring..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Response to the animal rape discussion...

Merc, have you ever seen an animal that's been tortured and beaten? It may not know what to call what happened to it, but it sure as hell is "self-aware" enough to be feeling the same fear, hurt & suffering that a human victim would. I have to say that your comment about how "real" victims would be appalled to have their suffering considered equal to animals bothered me. Humans don't have a lock on emotion -- we're not the only ones who can feel love, happiness, pain or sorrow. Just look on Petfinder, you'll see that lots of rescued female breeder dogs don't like being in houses with male dogs even when they're well-adjusted in every other way. They get fearful & anxious because the males are a reminder of a painful & traumatic time in their lives. I agree with India & Medusa in thinking that forced breeding is akin to rape.

Rape IS an emotive word, but it's still just a word, a human label. Just because animals can't label what's happening to them doesn't mean they don't feel agony from the act. They can't talk, so they're forced to suffer in silence -- but they ARE suffering.

i have seen animals beaten and abused, but how can it be called rape, the other hand is how do you know they dont enjoy it, you are putting human ideals onto animals, and how do you KNOW for a fact that the cat/dog doesnt like it.. thats the problem, oh i wouldnt like that therefore they wouldnt like that.. you are putting your own personal feelings onto those animals. its a sort of i dont like it, therefore it shouldnt be done in humans thats understandable, but in animals.. you gotta be kidding. forced breeding i agree, but this is you have male dog and female dog in the same place.. they will breed, your missing the whole point, thats nature, we are smart enough to choose and so are some animals they eat their own young. are cuckcoos child murderers.. as they destroy the eggs of other birds, and lay their own there.. YOU CANNOT place human actions onto animals when they react to other animals, in nature theres a lot of things that happen without human contact, that could be termed murder, homosexual activities, child murder lions have killed offspirng that are not their own dna, and so on.. you should let animals be animals, if you dont then how are you better than the moralising bible bashers. some chimps eat their own, when short on food, cannibalism. necrophilia as well, you name it. but we dont go around and arresting animals for it, we dont do around moralising. they are only acting as their nature dictates.


you misread what i said,

*not force breeding thats wrong, let nature take its course.. at least in the pet sense..* *selling the offspring just for money, to sending them out for breeding to make money is prostitution*

i am totally against the forced breeding in puppy/kitty farms, just for money, hell thats exactly like whats happening to the single moo breeders, they have a kid and use it to get money. but to call it rape, is completely mad. i say once again you CANNOT put HUMAN rules onto ANIMALS. it doesnt work like that. they may love you, and care for you, thats different,



***http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/20000517/fle14001.html

Cats have a world of their own: chasing other cats, fighting with tough alley cats, peculiar copulation rituals (which gives the impression of rape at times) and funny mating sounds in winter. In the Far-East, cats are learning to be pacifists: Two male or female cats confronting each other actually prefer to argue than fight

http://www.lpzoo.com/ethograms/FRMS/menus/small_carnivore/palm_civet.htm.

Sniff the female: The male follows the female, sniffing her anogenital area so as to ascertain her sexual status.

Flehmen: Following the female, the male olfactorily senses or licks the perineal gland, vagina or the urine of an estrous female. It opens its mouth, closes its nostrils, and exposes its teeth by curling up the lips. The head is then jerked back.

Coyness: The pre-copulatory play where the female in estrous makes a peculiar crying sound and flees from the pursuing male.

Mount: The estrous female lowers her body allowing the pursuing male to mount from sides.

Copulation: The actual process of mating. During this process, the receptive female lies down on the ground, raises her hindquarters and allows the pursuing male to mount on her from the back. The male then grasps the groin of the female with its hind legs and copulates. The lordotic posture in the female is seen with intromission. Simultaneously, the male bites the neck of the female**




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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Merc, I don't consider it as "putting human ideals / rules onto animals", I'm applying the name of an action to an occurence. When the act of forcible sexual intercourse occurs - with any species - it's rape. You keep referring to what animals [exclusively] do as simply being nature -- removing humans from it, as if we're so superior that we're not even remotely similar to them. It isn't animal behavior, it's natural BASE behavior. Animals [like humans] masturbate [because it isn't simply about cut-and-dry reproduction for them either], have strange fetishes, practice homo- hetero- & bi- sexual behaviors -- and it's not uncommon [but it's also not super-prevalent, just like with humans] for them to have pedophilic, necrophilic and violent sexual tendencies. Humans may be able to make laws, and we have tools to give us the ability to choose whether or not to procreate, but we're not completely removed from base natural [animal] instincts & behaviors.

I'm not saying that all humans should strip naked, abandon their homes and live in the wild amongst all creatures -- I'm just saying that you shouldn't buy into the belief that [I'm having a hard time phrasing this...] we're a completely different, seperate, superior creation that is totally unlike / unrelated to any other -- which is what "moralising bible bashers" [it's hard for me to not us a z] believe. Do you get what I mean? A lot of people seem to think that humans are the only ones "smart" or "self aware" enough to value their lives & well-being, that animals can't understand when something painful is being done to their own bodies, that they don't know what they do & don't want. Just because a female dog is in heat doesn't mean that she wants to mate with every male that comes along. Go ahead and check out some "backyard breeder" message boards and see how many of them say that [even about dogs who aren't in their 1st heat cycle]. It really ticks me off to see how many people say "just hold her down and let him mount her". Then later the owner will post that the dog cried [you know the sound -- and sometimes it's not just "coyness"] & struggled the whole time and later cowered under a table & refused to come when called and acted "upset".

When you get hit, you feel pain -- so do animals. When you're repeatedly mistreated by the same person, you grow weary, mistrustful & fearful of them -- animals do the same. When you're with someone who's good to you, you get happy & grow to care for them very much -- so do animals. When you lose someone that you care for, you grieve -- animals do too. When you see someone beating up on a person that you care about, you get angry & protective -- as do animals. When you see your SO flirting it up with somebody else, you get jealous & even a little petty -- just like animals [haven't you ever had a cat nip at you for not giving it as much attention as it thinks it deserves?]. When somebody has a fancy new car, you get a little envious -- it's the same for animals [except with bones & chew toys]. How can you think that with animals having such similar feelings, emotions & reactions as us in that many ways that those similarities wouldn't extend to the full emotional gamut?

Sorry about the length of this post, but I sometimes get a little long-winded. It was a little hard to put what I'm thinking into words, so thanks for bearing with me & feel free to let me know if I've worded something so badly that you can't fully understand my meaning and I'll try to explain better.

I have 6 cats and get the sob story "oh, you won't even notice one more, can't you take her?" when I talk to someone who needs to get rid of their ONE AND ONLY cat because Cuntliegh has allergies or they just don't have time or it's so much hassle.

Yes, how frigging hard is it to care for a cat? My guess is these lazy assed people don't want the cat hair or litterbox duties, yet they can change shitty diapers, clean up puke and drool and wipe sticky shit off the walls every day for years on end. No thanks. I'd have 100 cats if I had the time and money over 1 brat any day.

I have 3 males and 3 females, even though everyone is spayed and neutered, they seem to have "paired up" and have become "couples" - grooming each other, sleeping together, etc. It's so cute.

All I can say is that abuse of any living creature is wrong regardless of species. As humans, we put ourselves up on a superior plane above animals. In many ways, I know I should be a vegetarian...tried and "failed"...but I will keep trying again. Yet, I did spray the nasty stuff about when I had a bug problem in another apartment. A Hare Krishna friend said that the bugs had souls. Fair enough! I don't know how to react on that one and justify spraying those things. Tough question! Enough from me on this topic.

but your mistaking, human for animals, just because animals have different ways, how are to to moralise them.

should vegetarians, give dogs known carnivores soy instead of meat. as its so called more moral for them, dogs and cats dont have our mindset, they go more off what they need that moral judgements, the cat doesnt care about the mouse or its beleif just if it tastes nice.

you keep mistaking and misread what i said you have stated **"It really ticks me off to see how many people say "just hold her down and let him mount her". Then later the owner will post that the dog cried [you know the sound -- and sometimes it's not just "coyness"] & struggled the whole time and later cowered under a table & refused to come when called and acted "upset". **

see thats rape, well actually its forced breeding, by a human, if this was in nature, then the animal would try and give up.. thats the whole idea. nature only mates with the dominant male, and only when it was able to. not before unlike the humans altering it.

ok imagine you see a wild animal, out there.. if its a wild animal do you object??.. or is it different for pets. do pets not have the right to copulate iTS when HUMANS decides whats best for that animal whether its breeding is rape (a typical feminist argument btw).. to force breeding, dogs and cats should breed when they are ready. or giving soy to known genetic meat eaters.

all you are doing is putting a human problem rape, onto natural instincts.. animals have more to do with natural instincts NOT moral issues, like you seem to be doing. they may look to you as a leader of the pack, but thats natural. lionesses in a pride, only come into heat, they dont all come in, its only the dominant female that does the rest are effectively babysitters..


stephanie, its your view of an action, rather than an animals, which is totally different,(animals have been known to drink out of toilet bowls, thats their instinct saying i need water) it may be gross to us, but to them its survival. have at look at nature, and you will see there are no rape police, i was stating that YOU personal call it rape, but lots of people dont, just like the law, i have heard of cases where the woman gives consent then removes consent afterwards.. is that rape.. legally yes, morally no..

its exactly the same, animals have their own rules, guided by their own instincts. how DARE we put our ideas that its rape, or murder or that its somehow morally better to create a vegetarian dog.. this is exactly what the religious people do, they decide whats best for us.

morals are subjective, you cannot judge animals behaviour by a humans behaviour, they are a distinct species, and deserve our respect and love, but they are a different species not furry humans.

thats what i mean by moralising.

forcing it to breed, before nature tells it too, thats wrong, but in nature there is no one forcing the animal too.. or do you think we should constrain nature by our rules. by our moral codes.. and if so which codes.. your codes or mine.. or bushs'

you cannot allow yourself to judge others by your own personal moral compass, "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" stephanie would you stop 2 animals in the wild breeding. simple question. if no, why not, coz they are wild, or animals, if yes, why.. because YOU believe it to be rape.. whats that for a justification. u deciding whats best for a species that you may know and love, but you wont be able to understand since you are not THEM.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Rape seems to be a kind of strange term to apply to animals. It does mean forcing sexual contact on a being that does not want it, however amongst humans it is about power and domination, not sex or reproduction. Humans do not rape humans to reproduce, they rape to have power or dominate them. I guess if humans force an animal who is not in heat to have sexual contact, that could be clinically termed rape, but I'm still kind of fuzzy as to why a person would do that since I don't think you can get an animal who is not in heat pregnant as a result. I guess also if a human had sex with an animal that was not in heat, that also could clinically equal rape.

There are instances of animal/animal "rape" I guess, but that's usually a function of evolution and not a power or domination thing. If a female is inseminated by a male, another male may come around and reinseminate her, if his sperm are stronger, they'll get to the egg first, and it's his "superior" genes which survive. Some male creatures can insert a "plug" into the female which will prevent other males from inseminating her, unless they can get that plug out.

exactly feh.. its when humans force breed animals, thats seriously wrong, and you could call that rape.. the ENFORCED BREEDING. thats totally unfair on the animals.. but animals doing as animals do..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I'm just not clear as to the purpose of forcebly breeding animals who are not in heat. To be honest, I've never heard of such a thing. I have always been under the impression that if a female animal is in heat, then she's fertile, and the mating will probably result in offspring. If she's not in heat, then she's not fertile at that time.

its the animals that refuse to be bred, the animals refuse wether its too small, or whatever.. thats the forced breeding, sometimes dogs wont.. we had one he was 7 and she was 6, he didnt want to know, he would rather play and shout at the other dogs.. but if we held her steady and forced him to mount first he would have killed us he was springer spaniel.. so that way.. forcing something that may told the animals not ready to breed yet (usually a function of age too young and it wont or shouldnt happen) or size.. my 2 dogs cant have puppies, they are too small.. they would have to have ceasarians .. so we dont.. if we forced them, then that would be totally wrong..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

In my first post I said "I agree with India & Medusa in thinking that forced breeding is akin to rape", and that statement is what my following post was also backing up. Merc, If you look over my posts again you'll see that I never once said anything about "deciding what's best" and I never suggested that anybody should constrain animals from doing whatever they naturally do, I just gave my opinion about forced breeding and said that I think there are emotional consequences, and you've taken it the wrong way -- which is actually perfectly understandable [I actually put a little disclaimer at the bottom of my last post saying that what I wrote may have come out badly].

You seem to think that this is about moralizing and applying human ideals, rules & laws to animals -- but I just think you're misreading what I've said. When I use the word "rape" I'm referring to the action only. Rape is forced sexual intercourse. It's not a species-specific or situational term. It's a word used for when forced sexual intercourse takes place. I simply said that with backyard breeding the act of rape, forced copulation, occurs & that it does have an affect on the "victim". In my second post I did point out some of the sexual behaviors that animals have [similar to humans], but I didn't say anything at all about the morality or motivations behind anything animals do naturally in the wild, I never said that an animal should be arrested for doing it. I only stated my opinion about forced breeding [which you agreed with in one post "its when humans force breed animals, thats seriously wrong, and you could call that rape"].

Feh, when I said "even about dogs who aren't in their 1st heat cycle", I wasn't saying that the owner was forcing a dog who'd never been in heat to mate, I meant that it wasn't the first time the dog was in heat. From what I've read it seems that many dogs don't like to mate during their first heat cycle, but they usually come around by the second or third. But there are some dogs who just don't want to do it for whatever reason and the owners force them.

Anyhow, I hope this cleared things up a bit. No hard feelings, please.

it was in part medusa saying that there was rape by animals 2 cats, then you jumped in, it was only natural that the way you said it after they said it, to come to that conclusion.

animals by them selves act like animals, what may work for them may disgust us, its when humans get involved.. thats the problem..

it was in part the way you say it is rape, just after someone mentioned it, it gave the impression that you agreed with them.

but when anyone starts to moralise a different life form culture, on the basis of your own, thats wrong.. thats the wrong part.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein