Club Juana

GreenGrass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "This must be feminism at work"
>
> OK that one really ticked me off. I keep seeing
> the "F" word tossed around like it is a bad thing.
> This is particularly the case with men who have
> been burned by a woman, or who think women should
> just shut up, get pregnant and stay in the
> kitchen. Sorry but I really hate it when people
> talk about feminism like it's a bad thing.

One thing I have learned, Green Grass, is that even the most progressive people hate feminism because that means a woman will take less sh*t off of a male.

no the more progressive males, see the term feminism as being and meaning men are scum and deserve castration and death. which is what it seems that men get from the modern world.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Substance, get a grip. There are professionals out there, doctors, who are total and complete whores and do every drug known to man. Not just strippers or prostitutes. Were you born just yesterday?

---

lab mom

Sorry about these long answers...

I'm not quite sure I understand how a court sentence and fine is anyone saying "it's okay to assault a male stripper". To be honest, I'm surprised there were even charges pressed. In alot of instances police see sex workers as "asking for it" simply because of their profession involves some affiliation with the sexual realm. Simply put, if you pay someone for a hand job, you do not have the right to take unprotected anal sex, but lots of cops, judges and johns feel differently.

I think a mistake is being made in confusing a simple physical assault with a sexual one. It's not a male or female thing, it's the degree of physical contact. It's one thing to beat your stripper with your fists and a bottle, it's a whole nother thing to force objects into the orifices of your stripper. The first is assault, the second is rape. Again, a stripper is being paid to simply take off their clothes and dance sexy. Strippers are not mind readers, and if you want them to do something special, you need to ask.

Then there is some confusion of the nature of strip clubs. Firstly, there are WAY MORE female than male strip clubs. Secondly, ALL strip clubs are for ogling mostly nude people, it's a sexual atmosphere and there's no getting around it. I do not know why a man can quietly watch a woman take off her clothes while a woman must scream and act like a banshee. I think it might have more to do with a lack of nude men in our culture more than anything else, one can simply turn on any music video channel or awards show and basically see a woman's birth canal. One really has to search for hot men taking it off.

Touching? Again, that's up to the management. If women buy more drinks and tip more when they can act like maniacs and handle the goods, then management is going to let the us do that, I think mostly because historically women haven't really proven themselves a sexual threat. Management isn't going to worry about that screaming banshee bride-to-be hanging out in the parking lot waiting to rape the stripper. We get drunk, paw the men, and go home. Men, I hate to say this Merc, have a history of abusing their insertive equipment, and there's really no denying it. Management doesn't trust men, because there are many men who have proven themselves untrustworthy.

I've experienced and spoke with both genders of strippers, in strip clubs, private parties and gay bars. From what I've seen male strippers encourage a more tactile experience, he will bring out the can of whipped cream and encourage audience participation in licking it off, he will dance on the bar and bounce his package on your head, and he will indeed come up between your seated legs, grab your ass, stand up and dance with his face in your crotch...which is unnerving to say the least. However, most male strippers I talk to have no worries dancing for or with women, they just don't feel threatened. Female strippers, in clubs, are for looking at and asking before touching..."hey baby, will you shake your ass around my nose?" In private, may be asked to do more, but in general maintain a pretty firm set of boundaries. I know many strippers, male and female, who won't dance privately for men, because of the history.

I should add here that ALL strippers should be asked before touching, unless there's an obvious invitation like "hey folks, come up and lick whipped cream off my chest", or "who wants to get frisked by
Officer Sexy?".
And I say..."yes Officer Sexy, frisk me, for I have many illegal dollar bills shoved down the front of my shirt which you will now retrieve with your mouth".

I am sorry to wander way off topic but I feel I must say something - Mercurior, I understand your position about men's place in today's world. I think it must really suck to be a guy today, especially in terms of being oopsed and such. But let me tell you, being a woman sucks too. I can't even walk down the street by myself in the so-called "free" US of A to get milk at the grocery store without being harassed repeatedly by perverts in passing cars. I have even been solicited for prostitution waiting for a bus a couple of times, even though I do not dress sexy at all. I have had to deal with buttloads of sexual harassment in my daily life, and it doesn't make it any better that some women think it's somehow "liberating" to act like a ho-bag. When they do that, it makes life suck that much more for those of us who are just trying to get along with life. Same goes for these stupid women who think they are so damn special for being a SAHM - when they leave the workplace to be Moomie, and make it hard for women like me to get taken seriously when in consideration for a job, because I am in my "reproductive years". So, my point is being a woman today can really suck too! OK, rant off!

GreenGrass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am sorry to wander way off topic but I feel I
> must say something - Mercurior, I understand your
> position about men's place in today's world. I
> think it must really suck to be a guy today,
> especially in terms of being oopsed and such. But
> let me tell you, being a woman sucks too. I can't
> even walk down the street by myself in the
> so-called "free" US of A to get milk at the
> grocery store without being harassed repeatedly by
> perverts in passing cars. I have even been
> solicited for prostitution waiting for a bus a
> couple of times, even though I do not dress sexy
> at all. I have had to deal with buttloads of
> sexual harassment in my daily life, and it doesn't
> make it any better that some women think it's
> somehow "liberating" to act like a ho-bag. When
> they do that, it makes life suck that much more
> for those of us who are just trying to get along
> with life. Same goes for these stupid women who
> think they are so damn special for being a SAHM -
> when they leave the workplace to be Moomie, and
> make it hard for women like me to get taken
> seriously when in consideration for a job, because
> I am in my "reproductive years". So, my point is
> being a woman today can really suck too! OK, rant
> off!

I agree, and it can go both ways.

yes, i agree, but when the rules say one thing is right for one, and wrong for the other..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

These particular rules are set up by the management of the clubs, and influenced by the culture. Men, in general, have proven that they can not be trusted with their insertive equipment, especially when you add alcohol and nudity. Not you, Merc not my BF, not my coworkers, not my friends, nor most male relatives, but there is a long standing history of men abusing others in a sexual way, and that's just a fact. If you have learned as a club owner that men can not be trusted to behave themselves appropriately around women, or your strippers are afraid to come to work because they feel unsafe, you are going to set up strictly enforced rules to keep your employees feeling safe so that they return to work, and make money for you.

Women, in general, have historically been non-threatening sexually. Thusly, the management of a club with male strippers, and male strippers themselves, feel that it's okay for women to "cross the line" so to speak and cop a feel. Many times it is encouraged as it will get the dancer more tips and get the ladies to buy more drinks, making more money for the bar owner. This is a given in the male stripping industry there will probably be some degree of touching involved. If you don't like having physical contact with your audience, you'll stop stripping. If women suddenly started hanging out in the parking lot, stalking the dancers and making them feel unsafe, I'm quite positive the management would change the rules to disallow touching between the male strippers and female audience.

Plus, women listen and follow instruction better than men. If a woman is groping the male stripper, and he removes her hand and says "hey lady, don't beat my meat" or whatever, she won't be a problem for the rest of the night. Unfortunately for most men, I've seen women on stage (NOT STRIPPING, just playing in rock bands) too many times getting groped by some hulk in the front row having to say "no" over and over and over, until she basically has to kick him in the face to get him to stop. Thusly, men get treated as sex maniacs with no control, even though they're sitting quietly with their hands visible in a strip club, and women get indulged in all their crazy boy toy dry humping sex fantasies when they go see the all male revue.

Exactly, Feh. And beautifully put, GreenGrass - thank you both. Last time I checked, 99 % of rapists and abusers were men.

Excellent post, Feh. I could not have even attempted to say it better myself.

It's OK, India I just like to gently point out things like that when I see them, so that people may learn that fat in itself is not a bad thing

some men do act like that, but i say, dont women do the same thing, if men can be animals like that, cant women, people are as different as people think, its the perception of men and women thats the problem.

like in the case of domestic violence, apparently only women suffer, according to governments, but men suffer too. does that mean all men as wife beaters, or they grope strippers, no, a minority are. its when you accept the behviour of one group, and condone the other for the same acts. thats the wrong thig.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

india_darshan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GreenGrass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "This must be feminism at work"
> >
> > OK that one really ticked me off. I keep
> seeing
> > the "F" word tossed around like it is a bad
> thing.
> > This is particularly the case with men who
> have
> > been burned by a woman, or who think women
> should
> > just shut up, get pregnant and stay in the
> > kitchen. Sorry but I really hate it when
> people
> > talk about feminism like it's a bad thing.
>
> One thing I have learned, Green Grass, is that
> even the most progressive people hate feminism
> because that means a woman will take less sh*t off
> of a male.

And when we do take less shit off of a male, we are called bitches.

Denise, I am glad you do point these things out because it is so easy to say things and then think about it later. Thank-you for gently pointing these issues out.

Merc, the acts aren't the same, because the perceived threat isn't the same. I can't put it any more simply than that. When a man refuses to take "no" for an answer a person on the receiving end knows that they is in for a world of hurt. Women, in general, have proven that they can take "no" for an answer when it comes to sexuality. If men were sexually non-threatening in the way women are seen, then they probably would be allowed to grope all they want, because it would mean more money for the dancer and the club.

Here's a couple examples...
1. I was at a gay bar, watching an all-male revue. Lots of male strippers, men and women watching, everyone was having fun and somewhere around drunk. As the night progressed, the strippers became more "friendly" and began interacting more with the crowd. This is where I got a ride on the shoulders of a stripper. Whee! One of the strippers got on stage with a can of whipped cream and invited anyone up to lick it off. One of the women in a bridal party went a little too far, and started to remove the strippers g-string. He gently took her hand, gave her a little spin, and sent her back to her seat. She didn't do much else other than scream and throw bills at the strippers for the rest of the night. Oh yeah, and she bought everyone shots at last call.

2. I was watching a band involving men and women with a general message of peaceful revolution. The women were in knee length tight pants, cool vests and tank tops playing bass drums and washboards. They were tough, strong and sexy. They were not being "sexual" in any way. Everyone was having fun and there was a fair amount of drinking. There was a man near me in the front row who kept grabbing at the woman on stage in front of him. She said "No, back off" at least three times, and the people in the crowd around him were also telling him to cut it out. He would not stop and you could tell she was getting upset about it. He grabbed at her one more time, she said "NO" loud enough to be heard over the music, and he started trying to climb up on the stage. She had to KICK HIM IN THE FACE to get him back in the crowd, which then absorbed and pushed him to the back. He was bleeding, probably from a well deserved broken nose. You could tell she was very upset at having to do that, but everyone was cheering her. I can not tell you how many times I've seen similar scenarios played out at shows with females on stage.

It's not right that the different genders get treated differently, but again, there is a reason behind it as they tend to respond differently. You are correct that it's not ALL men who act this way, however huge numbers have historically...it is a FACT that MOST RAPES are commited by men. That's not saying that most men are rapists, but most rapists are men. With that in mind, it would be very hard for any business owner to bend the rules for a non-threatening person such as yourself, and still enforce it for some hulking neanderthal. There's just no way to distinguish without personally knowing each and every person who enters your door. I do feel bad that the reputation of an ENTIRE GENDER has been ruined in this way, but there's not too much that can be done about it until individual men work together to make it stop. You need to show the individuals you interact with that ALL people of your category(men, women, asians, blacks, punks, hippies, geeks, whatever...) are not the same.

but i am a hulking brute. because of the way i look(6 foot tall over 320 lbs), i get treated worse than if i was a male model, men do try to stop this stereotypes, but there so much inertia about, men start with 3 strikes against them, its a uphill struggle. thats the problem.. i think any strip club male or female, panders to a negative issue. that looks are better than personality, the pressures for female strippers to enhance themselves, etc.. to the idea that all men should be 6 packed and chiseled features, thats the problem. it gives a false idea of real beauty. and when people see it, they do bugger all.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I have no reason to think that you would be treated any differently in the front row of a rock show with women on stage as any other man who was having a good time, but keeping his hands to himself. I'm not saying "hulking neanderthal" in a physical sense, but a mental one. A shrimpy guy who is disrespectful of other's space is just as much of an "hulking neanderthal" as a creepy Uncle Fester type. Granted, if I'm alone on the street at night, I may cross over to the other side if I saw you coming my way, but trust me when I say I'd do that for any man I didn't know (we're having a crime spree here, so it's not safe to walk alone at night any more, yippee.)

Strippers are a FANTASY, and going to see strippers is one of the few fantasies you can act on in a safe way. There's little physical contact, no emotional involvement and you get to safely put yourself in an unusual space. People don't go to strip clubs to see what they've got at home, or to get to really know another person, they go to submerge themselves in a fantasy world where someone totally hot is dancing naked for them. That's really all it is. Everyone who walks into a strip club should know that it's just part of the game. Strippers flirt to get more tips, or to get customers to pay for higher priced dances. They sell themselves, and their stage personas (naughty, nice, shy, dominating..), in the hopes that someone out in the crowd finds them appealing enough to give them big tips, or even pay a goodly sum for a private dance in the champange room. Just like porn, they are trying to fufill someone's ideal fantasy person.

Example: I love my BF, to me he's hotter than anything I've seen in a g-string. He's not conventionally handsome by any stretch of the imagination, but he is the kindest, most generous, gentle, decent fellow I've ever come in contact with, has a beautiful smile and is a great dancer. I don't want to see him in a g-string, but he could walk around naked all day. At the same time, it is fun to go see an all-male revue with friends once in a while and have the hot guys "hit" on me. Not being conventionally attractive myself, it's kind of a thrill that I haven't experienced alot of. I'm not actually interested in the hot guys, and I know they aren't really wanting to take me home, but it is a fun game once in a while. When we went to a strip club together (one of my team mates was in a pole dance competition - she's all natural by the way, and a very sweet person) BF explained his reaction to female strippers the same way, they flirt, make you feel special which gives you a little thrill, and then you go home to your wonderful S.O. with a few less bucks in your pocket and give to'em but good.

I guess I should add here that I do not hang out in strip clubs all the time, my job involves contact with people on the fringes of 'normal' soceity.

I may be a perv, but I'm a miserly perv.

I live in a town of about 6000 out in the boonies. Two years ago, a strip club opened just outside the city limits. Why a town this size needed one, I don't know. It's hard to imagine just what sort of women work there, as Waupaca is not exactly full of great-looking folks.

Maybe it's my upbringing, but I still gotta wonder about guys who hang out in "titty bars." If it were my hubby doing it, I'd be upset about it. And no, I'm not unattractive! It just seems a guy who does that probably can't get a decent woman interested in him. Or he's being disrespectful to his wife/gf.

As an aside, I've heard my brothers frothing at the mouth over some ho-bag on TV while their wives were in the same room. And no, they didn't learn that from dad. At least my DH has more class than that!

Maybe my point is that men can and will think what they want, but that doesn't mean we all want to know about it. Shit, I'm confused...

YW, India I know it is easy to let words get away sometimes

I must be wierd, cos I don't care if so-called 'hot' guys hit on me. I have the man I have always wanted in my life, and don't need to see any strippers, or flirt with anyone. I'd also rather not waste money on stippers, and would rather my husband not do so, as well. The money could be put to better use; he could use the money to buy some elctronic, book, or collectible he enjoys.

I see it as kind of insulting, when people say they go to strip clubs to see something other than wot they have at home. Is what they have at home not good enough? Is 'hot' everything? Also, I'd feel a LOT less inclined to get in the same bed with my husband when he's just been in a club with some bint's tits in his face all night. Just the way I feel.

I am with you, Denise! I never cared about "hot" guys hitting on me. My reaction is more of suspicion when a man like that tries to show interest. I also feel more pride than to pay for that attention as a female. Regarding a man who went to a strip bar, I would tell him to go back and pay the girl to get in bed with him because I would also feel repulsed to do anything after he had stuffed dollar bills in her g-string to have her t*ts shaken in his face or to cop a feel.

I totally agree with you, Denise and India. I wouldn't want my husband to go to those places - and not because I'm repressed or whatever, but because I think it's disrespectful. And I wouldn't want to sleep with him after he's been teased by other women all night either. I'd feel like he doesn't really want ME.

And I feel the same way about male strippers and so-called "hot guys". I think they are vulgar. It amazes me to hear of some women making pathetic fools of themselves in those places.

i wouldnt want to be with a woman who went to a male strip club.. its equally gross to me, the whole industry panders to dehumanising people..

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein