Fence sitting "CF'ers"

"I don't plan on having children, but we haven't taken any permanent steps to prevent his sperm and my egg from uniting to form what would undoubtedly be the world's most attractive and intelligent little sociopath. Accidents do happen. And if one did in our case, where would we raise the thing?"

A female writer over at cracked wrote a whole nother article about how society looks at CF women. This time it is one about the "5 realites about marrying a foreigner" The foreigner in this case is a Brit" She mentions she has yet to go for a tubal, but makes it clear that an accident would be birthed and raised if sperm and egg did meet before getting it done and life would have to be turned upside down. The power of the LifeScript is that strong in some people it is scary. It makes real CF women look like they are only CF until the BC fails. Ugh!!!

Quote
cfdavep
"I don't plan on having children, but we haven't taken any permanent steps to prevent his sperm and my egg from uniting

If she's having unprotected sex, then she's planning to have children. If he hasn't been snipped, she hasn't been sterilized and they're banging away regardless, then they are planning to have children.

It's one thing if birth control fails, but if they're already planning to keep any accident that results from it, then they're planning to have children and they certainly aren't CF.

Yep, I have to agree with lurker-derp here. One "Happy Accident" TM away from being breeders. They already have the breeder mentality. It's just a matter of time.

Yet another edition of " but birth control doesn't always work!" If they're using any protection, you can bet it's half-assed at best and not every time they shtup. Wow...definitely NOT cf.

It takes a child to raze a village.

Quote
cj
Yet another edition of " but birth control doesn't always work!" If they're using any protection, you can bet it's half-assed at best and not every time they shtup. Wow...definitely NOT cf.

True but no birth control absolutely does not work...just a matter of when. She is CL not CF.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

"The power of the LifeScript is that strong in some people it is scary"
Yep.

there is nothing that is more disgusting than wanna-breeders posing as CF.

Birth control can fail. If being used properly and consistently, the odds of that are much, much smaller. People aren't very good at it, which is why there are two separate stats, "perfect use" and "typical use". I have no hard data on this, but I'd be willing to argue that CFers tend toward the "perfect use" end of the spectrum, because pregnancy is completely and utterly unacceptable, full stop. Contingency plan in case of birth control failure: abortion. If your contingency plan involves birthing and raising a child, you aren't childfree because on some level you are okay with being a parent.

I wonder what the attraction is for these women to play the CF card until their is an accident?? Unless they see being "CF" as hip in their twenties. They should just admit to fence sitting and that kids are a possibility.

I don't think these people understand what CF even means. Probably sounded "cool" to her. No idea why she needed to write such a useless article about her genitals and sex life.

And then you have this writer, who thinks she ought to be wearing a hair shirt because she doesn't want kids.

It's an article full of self-castigation and guilty justifications, winding up with a statement that implies "I'm effed up for not wanting kids but, yanno what? That's OK!"

Quote

Birth control can fail. If being used properly and consistently, the odds of that are much, much smaller. People aren't very good at it, which is why there are two separate stats, "perfect use" and "typical use". I have no hard data on this, but I'd be willing to argue that CFers tend toward the "perfect use" end of the spectrum, because pregnancy is completely and utterly unacceptable, full stop. Contingency plan in case of birth control failure: abortion. If your contingency plan involves birthing and raising a child, you aren't childfree because on some level you are okay with being a parent.

THANK YOU for writing something so succinct and so true. I wanted to bold the entire passage because it's beautiful.

I've even been challenged on this page by CFers who have had BC failures (and aborted) and I'm quick to quantify: the general non-CF population does not seem to realize:

1. you can get pregnant each and every time you have sex, therefore if you don't want kids, you need to USE BIRTH CONTROL EACH AND EVERY TIME YOU HAVE SEX
2. you can get pregnant during your period and I am living proof of that (my mom had a lot of faults, but she explained birth control and pregnancy to me in excruciating detail)
3. THAT HAVING SEX WITHOUT PROTECTION CAN CAUSE PREGNANCY.*


*And I don't give a shit if your doctor tells you that your uterus is tipped, or you have endometriosis and you aren't likely to get pregnant. I had endometriosis since puberty and I used freaking birth control EVERY TIME I HAD SEX until I was sterilized. I used a diaphragm for YEARS and I followed the instructions religiously, including using more spermicide if I had sex a second time. I also chose to have my husband wear a condom during the middle of my cycle because I didn't want to get pregnant. When I took the Pill, I NEVER MISSED A DAY because I didn't want to be pregnant. I did this until I was sterilized. Now I don't have a uterus so it's a moot point.

I'm not writing this to say I'm hot shit because I didn't get pregnant. It was a combination of vigilance and luck on my part, because BC failures do happen. (Antibiotics + the Pill + possible failure isn't widely known, for example.)

I am saying that the average, non-CF, I-wouldn't-be-opposed-to-children person is different from the CF. I know, because for some reason people like talking to me and so I hear gems such as:

1. "We aren't trying to have kids, but we aren't doing anything to prevent it either."
2. " He pulls out before he has an orgasm, so we are safe."
3. Well, we don't use it every time, but we don't want kids right now.
4. No I wasn't using protection, but I didn't use protection for nine years and I never got pregnant.

#1 came from friends of mine, both veterinarians. Yes, these are people with seven-plus years of higher education and an extensive knowledge of animal husbandry. The woman got pregnant within the first year and they went through an unsurprising divorce afterward.

#2 came from two people with master's degrees, professional jobs.

#4 was a serial Breeder with three different BabyDaddies who got pregnant at age 41. She was not opposed to having another one either. I lost track of her.

The average Breeder-friendly person is not opposed to children and they are reckless with the BC.

I don't plan to be an idiot but if an accident of any kind occurs which exposes me as one guess I'm an idiot as I'll take no precautions to avoid being an idiot. And once I'm an idiot I'll choose to remain one even if I'm woefully prepared to be one. Breeder.

Thank you, bell_flower. I've had similar conversations with people, and I think they have a hard time realizing that the attitudes of the sexual participants have toward does affect how vigilant a person is with birth control. If a reasonably smart person wants to be a parent someday, pregnancy itself isn't a bad thing, but bad timing is to be avoided. They are prudent with birth control and good for them.

But it's hard to explain to such people (even if they're PNBs) exactly how unacceptably BAD an outcome pregnancy is for a CF person.

I, too, have been stunned by how many sexually active adults of any gender do not realize that medication (esp. antibiotics) interferes with hormonal birth control! When I was taking HBC, I asked about ALL meds I was prescribed. And if it was an antibiotic, I assumed that it WOULD bork up my birth control, and made plans accordingly.

I see this kind of cavalier attitude a lot over on Smothering. "Oh, we aren't trying, but we aren't not trying either, teehee!" In other words, just letting the chips fall where they may. The ones who say it the most are usually the ones who can't afford the kids they already have.

The "leave it up to fate/Gawd/chance" attitude can be okay to have in some situations (like when there's nothing you can do to fix things in your favor), but it's far too careless of a mindset when it comes to reproducing. Having kids changes fucking everything about your life and will do so for several years, yet people will put more thought into the underwear they wear on a given day than they do about having kids.

There is no such thing as a fence-sitting childfree person. If you are not actively trying to prevent pregnancy in some way, you are not childfree. Simple as that. It's okay to be unsure about kids because that means you're giving breeding actual thought, and you can go from being a fence-sitter to CF, but if you're fucking away without any sort of protection beyond withdrawal, it means that you are, in one way or another, alright with becoming a parent and, therefore, you are not childfree.

I think these people don't like saying they're fence-sitters because they don't want to sound unsure to others. Uncertainty comes off as flaky and others might think they are not dependable or are unstable because they can't just make their minds up already, so they call themselves childfree, but what they really mean is "Childfree until further notice." That way, they can just sound like rebellious, party-animal twenty-somethings who are sure of themselves until they get knocked up or knock someone up. Then they do a total 180 and become proud parents, which also makes the genuinely CF lose credibility as a side effect.

Like I said, it's okay to be uncertain about making a huge, permanent life-altering decision. However, it is not okay to sit there saying you're childfree while not lifting a finger to prevent pregnancy on a regular basis. That just makes you a lying, ignorant asshat.

Quote

"I don't plan on having children, but we haven't taken any permanent steps to prevent his sperm and my egg from uniting"

Riiiiiight~ hears the thing, right now Im a woman in a relationship with a man. I use BC pills daily and he uses condoms every time sex happens. If the condom slipped/ripped or otherwise failed, or I'd been sick recently and wasnt certain my BC pills were 100%. I would seek out and use the morning after pills. If hell forbid that also fails, I'd be back at my doctors requesting where I can get an abortion asap; because I sure as shit dont want a child. But right now, while im unemployed, I cant afford the cost of permanent BC. however soon as I am financially able, I will be consulting doctors on getting that ball rolling. Thats the difference between my: no way in hell will I have kids; and your will birth and raise it when accident happens.

Me thinks people should look up the meaning of the terms they use to describe themselves, because she is certainly not CF. (must think shes "child free" now, like parents claim to be when dumplings at camp)

Quote
Dorisan
And then you have this writer, who thinks she ought to be wearing a hair shirt because she doesn't want kids.

It's an article full of self-castigation and guilty justifications, winding up with a statement that implies "I'm effed up for not wanting kids but, yanno what? That's OK!"

I read that - ERG. I thought it might be the usual kind of satire that Cracked does - but this woman here - it does not come off as any kind of satire. "Hair Shirt" is right.

And then I looked at a few of the comments ~

OK, first few not too bad ~

And then came a few Parents, not too bad ~

And then came the ones who 'do not wish to identify with the "CF Movement" - because Those People - Are Icky and Bad Meanies.

And then comes Walking Pneumonia Duh to say that, while he understands the CF, - it's all worth it. Sick and tired as he is.

And then came the "Financial Infertiles". I've seen these types popping up enough lately - let's give 'em a name. These are the types saying - We would LOOOOOOV to have keeeeds!!! - But, we are BROKE.

Now I hate to be a 'Boot Straps' sort, but ~

For some bizarre reason I'm living in a nice 'hood where the median home price is half a million bucks and I'm driving a $40K sports car.

Hmmm ~
How did that happen?

Let's see -

Lots of education. On a continual basis and keeping current.

Hard work.

Watching my money, being 'thrifty'. You don't think I paid the above prices on the above things? Ha, NO. I shop smart and used is AOK with me!

Down to the penny too. I'm pretty cheap. I got overcharged $2 on a pizza at the store the other day. You bet I took the receipt back and wanted my $2 back. For sure.

And everything else - shut things off when not in use, *everything* but the alarm system and my work 'puter system (that goes into sleep mode) is shut off at night. Or even if I am not in those rooms. Ceiling fans, heat, everything.

I also buy the cheaper store brand foods, cook for myself, take care of my things, shop the 'Clearances' and resale shops - I'm "Thrifty"

I own another house too (needs *alot* of work), and a piece of vacant land.

Somehow - I managed to pull this off ~

Which is no big deal by no means, but *I survive* anyway, and do even have a few 'extras'. Through hard work, research, and planning. And doing without other things too.

I was also in a line of work that was 'offshored' and had to adapt to that and 're create' myself. Which I did. I also got divorced.

But for some reason ~
I have my nice home and kickass sports car.

Huh. It's a baffling mystery ~

Quote
Bell Flower
#1 came from friends of mine, both veterinarians. Yes, these are people with seven-plus years of higher education and an extensive knowledge of animal husbandry. The woman got pregnant within the first year and they went through an unsurprising divorce afterward.

This reminds me of a book I recently read -

http://www.amazon.com/Lab-257-Disturbing-Governments-Laboratory/dp/0060011416

This is a seriously disturbing book. And all the more so because it's carefully researched, it's not wild speculation. A careful, in depth look by a serious Author. And it's all quite disturbing.

But it was one of the more banal asides that *floored me* -
Regarding a H and W who were both (US) Army Veterinarians working on exotic (and highly dangerous) animal diseases - OK, the Author writes a bit about 'their life', talk about the people involved, 'flesh them out as people' so to say ~

And one blurb mentioned was that The Wife Infectious Animal Disease Doc - did ALL the cooking at home! Because her counter part H was 'hopeless in the kitchen'. GAH! So this Ebola Doctor spends her free time / weekends cooking up the Famblee Dinners to be reheated throughout the week?

HEAD DESK!!!

Well, I do give her credit for 'home cooking' anyway. But why can't Dad do that too? And why would such a person *accept this*? A high ranked Military Officer? If I were her I'd be cracking the whip at home!

And when the Duh was stuck minding the kids, when Doc Mom was working on some crisis - Duh took the kids to McDonalds.

EYEROLL

Oh and of course thoughts from the both of them along the lines of - Bad Diseases! What about Our Children?! (If they should be sickened and die).

Um, well ~ here's a crazy novel idea - if your work is not compatible with kids - you may want to modify some of your plans.

It isn't rocket science.

And they let people like this handle rockets.

And Ebola ~

We best hope that Mom Doc in question here doesn't mix up the Famblee Fave Lasagna recipe with the Ebola handling instructions ~

That Couch Potato NEVER cooks!
Grumble grumble.
I guess I can whip up a pot of Spaghetti.
Where'd I put that container of Oregano ~
Ah, here it is - in my coat pocket.

~ Later ~

What the Hell did I do with that tube of Anthrax?

Not CF.

I'm CF, but perhaps the exception that proves the rule. I got cavalier about contraception one night and ended up getting an abortion at 39. The only other people my age in the clinic that day were employees and women who were there with their daughters. In case it can help anyone else, I learned two things: 1.) Don't believe the hype about declining fertility (it was one time), and 2.) Vaginal contraceptive film must be used with a condom. It either does not work or the quality control on it is terrible. For years I thought I was doing suspenders and a belt, and it turns out the VCF was superfluous. I shudder to think what kind of monster would have resulted due to my age and the semen being bathed in sperm killing chemicals.

I have a supposedly CF friend who used to joke that she and her husband would rather get a dog than have kids. She gave birth in January and has just posted her first brelfie on Facebook. In a way the sprogging isn't that surprising- she's a practising Catholic- but the going full-on breeder is.

Can a person really be a practising Catholic and call themselves CF? I'm an atheist who was raised catholic and so much of Catholicism seems to be about fetishising motherhood and babies- and of course the worship of one mother in particular. Even if a Catholic decides to use contraception can they ever really escape this idea that they're neglecting their duty to populate the kingdom of Heaven with souls? They must feel very conflicted at the very least. Then again, many anti-abortion Catholics see no problem with having IVF so I guess they just pick and choose which bits of the faith suit them.

Quote
happyhiker
I'm CF, but perhaps the exception that proves the rule. I got cavalier about contraception one night and ended up getting an abortion at 39. The only other people my age in the clinic that day were employees and women who were there with their daughters.

That wouldn't be at all unusual here in the UK. We've had a massive fall in the teenage pregnancy rate and a rise in the number of older women getting abortions- abortion is now more common among women over 25 than among women under 25:

BPAS link

The majority of women having abortions here already have children- even breeders who are careful with contraception because they definitely don't want more children can have accidents. It has also been suggested that older couples take more risks, thanks to the "fertility diving off a cliff" scare stories women get bombarded with. My mother had two children in her forties and a late menopause, I won't be taking any chances.

Quote
randomcfchick
I, too, have been stunned by how many sexually active adults of any gender do not realize that medication (esp. antibiotics) interferes with hormonal birth control!

A school friend of mine got pregnant at 18 after her doctor prescribed her antibiotics without telling her that they'd render the pill useless. I think that was the first time I'd heard about that particular drug interaction. It's a real shame she also hadn't heard about it earlier, especially as she decided to keep the baby, and its father unexpectedly broke off their two-year relationship and fled the country to get as far away from them as possible.

It sounds like you live below your means Zzelda, which is a good thing. People preach living within, I preach living below your means.
I do the same stuff. I've noticed that the prices at the thrift stores have gone up considerably though.
It pisses me off.

______________________________________________________
Someday we'll look back on this moment and plow into a parked car.

Evan Davis

Quote

A school friend of mine got pregnant at 18 after her doctor prescribed her antibiotics without telling her that they'd render the pill useless. I think that was the first time I'd heard about that particular drug interaction. It's a real shame she also hadn't heard about it earlier, especially as she decided to keep the baby, and its father unexpectedly broke off their two-year relationship and fled the country to get as far away from them as possible.

Almost the exact same situation happened to a friend of mine when she was 19. Nobody told her that antibiotics interfere with the Pill, she got pregnant, kept the kid, and the father disappeared.

------------------------------------------------------------
"Why children take so long to grow? They eat and drink like pig and give nothing back. Must find way to accelerate process..."
- Dr. Yi Suchong, Bioshock

"Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born."
- Garrett Hardin

"I feel like there's a message involved here somehow, but then I couldn't stop laughing at all the plotholes, like the part when North Korea has food."
- Youtube commentor referring to a North Korean cartoon.

"Reality is a bitch when it slowly crawls out of your vagina and shits in your lap."
- Reddit comment

"Bitch wants a baby, so we're gonna fuck now. #bareback"
- Cambion

Oh whatever. Abortion doctors are crimestoppers."
- Miss Hannigan

Quote
paragon schnitzophonic
Almost the exact same situation happened to a friend of mine when she was 19. Nobody told her that antibiotics interfere with the Pill, she got pregnant, kept the kid, and the father disappeared.

The really sad thing about my friend's situation was the fact that she didn't even want to keep it at first. She was planning to leave home for university, she had just booked her first big holiday without her parents- along with me and a dozen other people- and this was 1999 so we all had a big night out planned for New Year's Eve- the very last thing she needed was a baby. I remember being on that holiday- she'd had had to cancel- and a load of us crowding round a phone booth while she was on the other end, in the maternity ward and telling us the news that she'd had a girl, before we went back to the beach and the restaurants and the bars. After that we all went off to uni while she had to stay behind, still living with her parents.

She did the test, got a positive result and phoned her boyfriend to say "We need to have an adult conversation about what we're going to do". He reacted as if she'd said "YOU'RE GOING TO BE A DAD AND THAT'S THAT". She had no intention of forcing him to become a dad and she even booked herself in for an abortion- she changed her mind at the appointment. If he'd stayed he could have had a say in the matter and they possibly could have agreed on a termination, with his support rather than with her attending the appointment alone and with her head in bits. Sadly even discussing the issue was too much for him. After that phonecall she never heard from him again- he left the country a few days later. His parents didn't approve of his behaviour and gave her his new contact details but he never answered her calls or letters. Two whole years together and he wouldn't even let her clear the air... In the end his parents turned out to be very supportive, helping her out financially and babysitting their granddaughter it's just a shame he didn't inherit their kindness and generosity.

I always think of this story when I see would-be oopsers claim: "He'll love it when it gets here".

Quote
happyhiker
I'm CF, but perhaps the exception that proves the rule. I got cavalier about contraception one night and ended up getting an abortion at 39. The only other people my age in the clinic that day were employees and women who were there with their daughters. In case it can help anyone else, I learned two things: 1.) Don't believe the hype about declining fertility (it was one time), and 2.) Vaginal contraceptive film must be used with a condom. It either does not work or the quality control on it is terrible. For years I thought I was doing suspenders and a belt, and it turns out the VCF was superfluous. I shudder to think what kind of monster would have resulted due to my age and the semen being bathed in sperm killing chemicals.

Actually the second highest group for accidental pregnancy behind the teens to early 20s is the perimenopausals late 30s+. We have all been sold a bag of goods of declining fertility and the eggs becoming raisins. However they forget to mention the multiple eggs spit out every month after skipping a couple of periods. You are extremely irregular so the body is operating at random.

I am pushing 50, have not had an MP in 8 months now, and will still use condoms/BC. I don't trust my body at all as long as the oven is plugged in.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

I think my one aunt fell into the "I'll rely on my age as birth control" trap, probably believing that she could screw around freely without consequence. She was pushing 50 when she got knocked up, and since she's a good, upstanding Catholic, she kept it. Never mind the fact that the kid was the product of an affair, which led to my aunt abandoning her partner of 25 years without so much as a warning in order to marry the kid's father to prevent their son from being born out of wedlock. Not only that, the rest of the family all had to lie to the partner's face about Aunt's whereabouts because we had no idea what the fuck to even do because we had no idea if the guy would go nuts and do something violent if he knew the truth or not. Yeah, real good Christian values.

A lot of women seem to believe that once they hit 40, they no longer need to worry about getting pregnant because of menopause or general age-related hormonal decline that isn't full-blown menopause just yet. I know after age 40 is when a woman's fertility is supposed to be winding down, but there will always be exceptions and women getting pregnant in their mid to late forties or even sometimes in their fifties. From what I'm reading, the oldest woman to conceive naturally (as in without IVF) was 59, but was also on hormone replacement therapy, which probably contributed.

It boggles my mind that there are so many people out there who put absolutely zero thought into what they will do about pregnancy, should one occur. Seems like a lot of men and women alike simply don't give a shit and treat pregnancy as a "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it" kind of attitude. That's a pretty irresponsible way to think about a major life-altering decision. If a pregnancy does happen, one or both parties might be feeling too emotional, vulnerable, unstable or uncertain to make rational, informed decisions and wind up making a choice they regret. Some people will be having their midlife crises in their thirties, forties or fifties and might see an unplanned pregnancy as an opportunity that will never come around again, a.k.a. "Gawd gave you this gift, don't waste it" bullshit. What to do in the event of an accidental pregnancy should be planned before it fucking happens, not after. Think about it when you're in a sane state of mind.

As a small aside, am I the only one who first saw the title of this topic as "Face sitting CFers?" I really need to pay more attention to things. And sorry for my two walls of text in this topic.

I got knocked up on my 41st birthday.
Had it sucked out at 8 weeks.
"Waning fertility " , my ass.