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Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps
Posted by yurble
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Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 13, 2019 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,434 |
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In Victoria, British Columbia, a garden to commemorate miscarriages called Little Spirits Garden has been set up:
And of course people like to act as if it is normal to make it the focus of your life. Debbie, who has had nine miscarriages: "I go on their birthdays - their due dates - and the days that they passed. I go there for Mother's Day, Father's Day, Easter, Valentine's Day. My husband and I need to connect with the children we would have otherwise celebrated with."
She has a daughter and a 'rainbow' son (from a donor egg), who she likes to bring along, because there's nothing like making a child feel the weight of a bunch of dead parental hopes
In Victoria, British Columbia, a garden to commemorate miscarriages called Little Spirits Garden has been set up:
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Within it are a series of long, concrete plinths, with small grey houses resting on them - these are "spirit houses", and each one commemorates a lost child. There are about 400 houses in the garden, with space for up to 3,000.
...
These are made of refined concrete. They also have a small womb symbol inscribed inside, a motif repeated throughout the design of the garden.
...
Families can customise their houses with their own designs, or leave them bare, with just a named inscription.
And of course people like to act as if it is normal to make it the focus of your life. Debbie, who has had nine miscarriages: "I go on their birthdays - their due dates - and the days that they passed. I go there for Mother's Day, Father's Day, Easter, Valentine's Day. My husband and I need to connect with the children we would have otherwise celebrated with."
She has a daughter and a 'rainbow' son (from a donor egg), who she likes to bring along, because there's nothing like making a child feel the weight of a bunch of dead parental hopes
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Debbie likes to visit the Little Spirits Garden with her daughter.
She too had her expectations dashed, Debbie says, when waiting for a brother or sister who never arrived.
Now eight years old, she has been accompanying Debbie to the garden since the age of three.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 13, 2019 | Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 2,364 |
If what these people are experiencing really is grief, how can they possibly expect to heal when they're obsessing over it every few weeks? That woman named six different occasions (what, not Christmas??) when she goes to this place and "connects" with these children that never existed...seriously, that's every other month. That cannot be healthy.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 13, 2019 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 4,092 |
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 13, 2019 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,434 |
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kittehpeoples
If what these people are experiencing really is grief, how can they possibly expect to heal when they're obsessing over it every few weeks? That woman named six different occasions (what, not Christmas??) when she goes to this place and "connects" with these children that never existed...seriously, that's every other month. That cannot be healthy.
I calculate it as even more than that: holidays x4 (one of them Valentine's day, which is normally not about babies), "birthday" x9, day of miscarriage x9. Of course there might be some overlap, but she's going there twice a month, on average.
That would be a lot and get in the way of moving on if it was someone you'd known and loved for a lifetime, like a parent. In the case of a fetus that was never born and therefore had no opportunity to display a personality, she's projecting her own fantasies, and dragging her living children into it. I agree, it does not sound healthy in the least.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 13, 2019 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 344 |
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yurble
I calculate it as even more than that: holidays x4 (one of them Valentine's day, which is normally not about babies).
Valentine's day is usually about love and, consequentially, sex, and you know breeders; sex is only for baby-making - no fun times allowed if it doesn't lead to a loaf.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 13, 2019 | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,979 |
When it comes to these women who have healthy children, yet still obsess over their lost clumps, I wonder if it’s not about her preferring the idealized non-existent child to the imperfect actual child. Children are people, and people often are disappointing. Perhaps she thinks her child is not as smart as she wants, or as cute as she wants, or just doesn’t have the personality that she wants it to have, so she obsesses about the perfect child that lives in her mind.
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"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin
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"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 13, 2019 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,973 |
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LoveToLurk
When it comes to these women who have healthy children, yet still obsess over their lost clumps, I wonder if it’s not about her preferring the idealized non-existent child to the imperfect actual child. Children are people, and people often are disappointing. Perhaps she thinks her child is not as smart as she wants, or as cute as she wants, or just doesn’t have the personality that she wants it to have, so she obsesses about the perfect child that lives in her mind.
I've thought about that too. These clumps don't get the chance to be born and inevitably turn into imperfect human beings, so the Moos fill the void left by a lost pregnancy by recreating the dead fetus in their minds as living, breathing children and they imagine an absolutely perfect child that looks adorable, acts like a complete angel, does well in school, sleeps all night, listens and gets along with everyone. So if/when these same women manage to actually have kids, those kids are going to constantly be compared to their fallen near-siblings, which are standards no real child can ever live up to. And when the kid winds up not matching Mommy's idea of what their child should be, they resent the kid they do have and take their frustrations and disappointment out on them for not being a perfect replacement for the imaginary angel clump.
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What do you do with the remains of a child lost during pregnancy? How do you honour their memory?
You fucking don't because there's no memory to honor. In order to have a memory of someone to honor, they have to have existed in the first place and had an impact on someone else's life in order to create memories. Miscarried clumps don't get the chance to do that.
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"They are too young for a funeral, but too old to ignore they existed. We didn't know where to place Victoria, so we just left her in the hospital. She was actually referred to as 'biowaste'. It broke my heart in pieces."
But they didn't exist, and there's no such thing as too young for a funeral because there are infant caskets. If it can't be buried or cremated, it's not a person. They didn't develop long enough to exist. And yes, I'm sure it causes butthurt, but miscarriages are considered medical waste no matter what you've named it.
I love how this woman says her husband needs to connect with the clumps. He looks bored out of his skull in that photo. The sentiment of this place is nice, I suppose, but it also encourages an unhealthy form of grieving where instead of getting over miscarriages, it keeps these women attached to them and keeps them in a state of consistent mourning, which most likely interferes with their normal lives and relationships. Getting their living kids in on it seems unhealthy too. Why get them upset over a dead clump? Tell them when they're a little older and let them decide if they want to visit the clump garden, because you KNOW these nutso Moos force their kids to go visit their "siblings."
This woman doesn't need a spirit house, she needs therapy.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 13, 2019 | Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 2,364 |
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yurble
I calculate it as even more than that: holidays x4 (one of them Valentine's day, which is normally not about babies), "birthday" x9, day of miscarriage x9. Of course there might be some overlap, but she's going there twice a month, on average.
That would be a lot and get in the way of moving on if it was someone you'd known and loved for a lifetime, like a parent. In the case of a fetus that was never born and therefore had no opportunity to display a personality, she's projecting her own fantasies, and dragging her living children into it. I agree, it does not sound healthy in the least.
Yeah, you're right. I wasn't thinking "per fetus." Wow.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 13, 2019 | Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 2,364 |
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Cambion
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"They are too young for a funeral, but too old to ignore they existed. We didn't know where to place Victoria, so we just left her in the hospital. She was actually referred to as 'biowaste'. It broke my heart in pieces."
But they didn't exist, and there's no such thing as too young for a funeral because there are infant caskets. If it can't be buried or cremated, it's not a person.
Yep. If there was something to bury, you could. If even the hospital staff or mortuary (that stands to make some $ off of it) won't do it, then take the hint....
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Cambion
I love how this woman says her husband needs to connect with the clumps. He looks bored out of his skull in that photo.
Probably like most guys. Could take or leave the kids he actually has and is just going along with the wife's insanity because it's easier than arguing.
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What do you do with the remains of a child lost during pregnancy? How do you honour their memory?
Flush twice?
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 14, 2019 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,434 |
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Cambion
I love how this woman says her husband needs to connect with the clumps. He looks bored out of his skull in that photo.
You mean how he's not facing the camera, and isn't mentioned by name (unlike the clumps), but is just "Debbie's husband"? To me he looks like someone who doesn't want to be associated with this insanity. Boredom would probably be a relief by comparison.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 14, 2019 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,434 |
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 14, 2019 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,973 |
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kittehpeoples
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Cambion
What do you do with the remains of a child lost during pregnancy? How do you honour their memory?
Flush twice?
LOL, I'm picturing a Moo trying to flush the toilet to the tune of taps and then it overflows and covers the bathroom floor in clump juice.Quote
yurble
You mean how he's not facing the camera, and isn't mentioned by name (unlike the clumps), but is just "Debbie's husband"? To me he looks like someone who doesn't want to be associated with this insanity. Boredom would probably be a relief by comparison.
I do get that a lot of the times, men aren't nearly as upset over miscarriages as women, even when they actually want the kid too. But yeah, this guy was most likely guilted into this shit and probably wishes he was getting a prostate exam or cleaning dog shit or literally anything else other than being there staring at rocks ten times a year for dog knows how many hours it takes Moo to catch her fetuses up on everything.
Dude's probably henpecked and just knows his place in the domestic hierarchy: down at the very bottom, below Moo, the kids and the almost-kids.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 14, 2019 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,712 |
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Quote from article
About 3,000 Canadian women experience stillbirth every year and it's reckoned that 15-20% of pregnancies result in miscarriage - but to suffer nine in a rowis exceptionalproves what a delusional bint this woman is.
Luckily this garden is limited to 3,000 of these things. Can you imagine the stupidity otherwise, with some wanna-moos having 3-5 miscarriages and insisting they be grieved and visited by relatives on a regular basis? Other than morning sickness, what other memories are a wanna-moo having in the first trimester? Hand the bint a bottle of ipecac syrup and let her make herself sick any time she pleases and everyone else can stay at home or live their lives.
These women need to stop living in a fantasy world of defective clumps growing up to be perfect children.
It is no different than those asshole parents who treat the living kid(s) like crap and always refer to some golden child sibling who died at a younger age and how perfect that sibling was. Same projecting of perfection crap.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 15, 2019 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,576 |
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yurble
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In Victoria, British Columbia, a garden to commemorate miscarriages called Little Spirits Garden has been set up:Quote
Within it are a series of long, concrete plinths, with small grey houses resting on them - these are "spirit houses", and each one commemorates a lost child. There are about 400 houses in the garden, with space for up to 3,000.
...
These are made of refined concrete. They also have a small womb symbol inscribed inside, a motif repeated throughout the design of the garden.
...
Families can customise their houses with their own designs, or leave them bare, with just a named inscription.
And of course people like to act as if it is normal to make it the focus of your life. Debbie, who has had nine miscarriages: "I go on their birthdays - their due dates - and the days that they passed. I go there for Mother's Day, Father's Day, Easter, Valentine's Day. My husband and I need to connect with the children we would have otherwise celebrated with."
She has a daughter and a 'rainbow' son (from a donor egg), who she likes to bring along, because there's nothing like making a child feel the weight of a bunch of dead parental hopesQuote
Debbie likes to visit the Little Spirits Garden with her daughter.
She too had her expectations dashed, Debbie says, when waiting for a brother or sister who never arrived.
Now eight years old, she has been accompanying Debbie to the garden since the age of three.
This woman is mental.
+++++++++++++
Passive Aggressive
Master Of Anti-brat
Excuses!
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 15, 2019 | Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 2,364 |
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freya
It is no different than those asshole parents who treat the living kid(s) like crap and always refer to some golden child sibling who died at a younger age and how perfect that sibling was. Same projecting of perfection crap.
I've often wondered about the "surviving" (i.e., actually existing) children...they're taught from such an early age to act like they have a sibling to mourn, when they really don't have a concept of death or mourning yet...and you know they're going to feel like they live in that sibling's shadow. That dead kid is absolutely perfect in the moo's eyes, and a real child can never be. What an awful way to grow up.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 15, 2019 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,835 |
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 15, 2019 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,973 |
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freya
Luckily this garden is limited to 3,000 of these things. Can you imagine the stupidity otherwise, with some wanna-moos having 3-5 miscarriages and insisting they be grieved and visited by relatives on a regular basis?
Give it time. The garden will eventually fill up and Moos will be screaming about how there's no room for their angel clumps and to either open a new garden, expand the existing one, or get rid of other people's clump rocks because whoever wants to add their miscarriage to the overstuffed fetus patch is more deserving of space than whoever laid their claims first.
This garden is really doing nothing but fostering unhealthy coping mechanisms. Nobody should be grieving the loss of a person who never even existed as though they actually did. They ought to offer therapy for visitors because if you're coming in once a month or so to visit each of your ten miscarriages' graves, you should really get some help.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 16, 2019 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,712 |
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Cambion
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yurble
You mean how he's not facing the camera, and isn't mentioned by name (unlike the clumps), but is just "Debbie's husband"? To me he looks like someone who doesn't want to be associated with this insanity. Boredom would probably be a relief by comparison.
I do get that a lot of the times, men aren't nearly as upset over miscarriages as women, even when they actually want the kid too. But yeah, this guy was most likely guilted into this shit and probably wishes he was getting a prostate exam or cleaning dog shit or literally anything else other than being there staring at rocks ten times a year for dog knows how many hours it takes Moo to catch her fetuses up on everything.
Dude's probably henpecked and just knows his place in the domestic hierarchy: down at the very bottom, below Moo, the kids and the almost-kids.
He is the spouse of the ultimate Debbie Downer and he knows it! It is probably all he can do to survive each day and her constant obsessing/scheduling over clumps that never were people.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 16, 2019 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,712 |
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Cambion
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freya
Luckily this garden is limited to 3,000 of these things. Can you imagine the stupidity otherwise, with some wanna-moos having 3-5 miscarriages and insisting they be grieved and visited by relatives on a regular basis?
Give it time. The garden will eventually fill up and Moos will be screaming about how there's no room for their angel clumps and to either open a new garden, expand the existing one, or get rid of other people's clump rocks because whoever wants to add their miscarriage to the overstuffed fetus patch is more deserving of space than whoever laid their claims first.
This garden is really doing nothing but fostering unhealthy coping mechanisms. Nobody should be grieving the loss of a person who never even existed as though they actually did. They ought to offer therapy for visitors because if you're coming in once a month or so to visit each of your ten miscarriages' graves, you should really get some help.
I completely agree, this is definitely one of those things that could go viral, especially since it is "free" or paid for by someone else.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 16, 2019 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,712 |
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kittehpeoples
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freya
It is no different than those asshole parents who treat the living kid(s) like crap and always refer to some golden child sibling who died at a younger age and how perfect that sibling was. Same projecting of perfection crap.
I've often wondered about the "surviving" (i.e., actually existing) children...they're taught from such an early age to act like they have a sibling to mourn, when they really don't have a concept of death or mourning yet...and you know they're going to feel like they live in that sibling's shadow. That dead kid is absolutely perfect in the moo's eyes, and a real child can never be. What an awful way to grow up.
I agree, it is awful. Someone needs to wake up these parents who worship dead kids to the detriment of their living kids.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 16, 2019 | Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 3,712 |
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Delusional landscape architects from article
The garden was designed by Canadian landscape architects Bill Pechet and Joseph Daly. The inspiration came from Bill Pechet's time in Japan, where he lived for two years. While there he was struck by a Buddhist tradition known as Jizo - the practice of creating a small, votive statue to mark the death of a child.
How smart do you have to be to understand there is a difference between a zygote/embryo/fetus and a child? One is born, the others are miscarried. Zygotes and embryos can be flushed down the toilet during a period with the pregnant woman being completely unaware.
If the architects described a five year old as an adult, they'd be called on their bullshit. At least adults and children have both been born and therefore others can have memories of them. They have more in common than a child and a freaking zygote/embryo/fetus.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 16, 2019 | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 3,576 |
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 16, 2019 | Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 2,364 |
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 20, 2019 | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 5,635 |
I am generally someone who's comfortable with expressions of grief, and with how it can be messy and does not proceed on a schedule. Grief doesn't proceed on a schedule, and sometimes people can't just "snap back to normal" after a certain time. Losing a child HAS to fuck up parents and for that they do have my sympathy. But...
These fetuses (fetii?) never had the chance to become babies with personalities and needs and such. I can understand parents mourning a miscarriage, but at some point they also have to develop the understanding that they're not mourning a person they really knew so much as mourning the potential...a path they really wanted their life to take, a person they really wanted to know. If they don't make that distinction, they can wind up projecting all sorts of things onto that miscarriage. That's unhealthy. I hope the women who are stuck forever in their grief are able to get some professional help so they can live with it in a manageable way.
These fetuses (fetii?) never had the chance to become babies with personalities and needs and such. I can understand parents mourning a miscarriage, but at some point they also have to develop the understanding that they're not mourning a person they really knew so much as mourning the potential...a path they really wanted their life to take, a person they really wanted to know. If they don't make that distinction, they can wind up projecting all sorts of things onto that miscarriage. That's unhealthy. I hope the women who are stuck forever in their grief are able to get some professional help so they can live with it in a manageable way.
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Re: Little Spirits Garden for angel clumps July 21, 2019 | Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 232 |
I recently lost my grandmother. I’m lucky to have had her as long as I did and it was expected and all that jazz, but it still hurt. A lot. I miss her in the evenings when I would go to see her in the facility she was in. I miss her when I hear something funny I want to remember to tell her. I miss her when I see something she would like or something she would find funny. In other words, I miss her in situations where she used to be and now she is absent. No such situations exist for a fetus. You aren’t going to start to call a fetus and then remember they are gone. It’s kind of an affront. A fetus is a fantasy relationship that never happened.
And this kind of shit is overkill even for a real person. I was very close with both my grandmothers, so I take a moment on their birthdays (this was the first one for one of them) and have a special dessert and celebrate and remember them. I can’t imagine turning every holiday into a mourning event. I very much doubt my grandmothers - who were actual people! - would want this.
And this kind of shit is overkill even for a real person. I was very close with both my grandmothers, so I take a moment on their birthdays (this was the first one for one of them) and have a special dessert and celebrate and remember them. I can’t imagine turning every holiday into a mourning event. I very much doubt my grandmothers - who were actual people! - would want this.
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