Defying God's Command to Procreate Will Lead to the Destruction of Civilization:rolleyes2

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/07/wankers_then_and_now.html




"...............We sophisticated moderns are so far beyond our animalistic urges that pornography is a $100-billion-a-year industry. While it's fair to assume that man's interest in procreative activities hasn't diminished in two thousand years, it does seem that his interest in procreation has. At least in the West.When contemporary Western man manages to rip himself away from his computer or television screen and actually make love to a woman, the odds are that there will be no baby. With cheap and easy birth control, the exercise is limited: He seeks his pleasure, she strives to avoid the consequence. End of story.

It is ironic that those "hung up" in the medieval Christian morality that bridged the gulf between the licentious, pagan times of the ancients and our own day managed to procreate sufficiently to keep pace with the Moslem menace that threatened Europe from the 7th century.The same Christians scandalized by Bacchus and his goat-girl made babies. Today, their heirs blithely choose extinction simply because they are too selfish to bear children. They contentedly satiate themselves without the risk of children that even the Roman pagans accepted, at least at home.

Western civilization has become an unparalleled culture of wankers...................

Not all manifestations are so subtle. Those of us who believe sexual behavior is solely a private matter need consider the demographic realities of Europe. The consequences of the bedroom reach far beyond our own gratification.
CBS News recently reported about 18% of American women aged 40-44 are childless, up from 10% in 1976. Apparently, America is joining Europe lockstep in a march to extinction. The article indicated that the trend was particularly pronounced among "higher-educated whites." ...

...Years ago I had a conversation with a devout Catholic. I asked him about the Church's preoccupation with birth control. His response was as simple as it was obvious: If sex becomes a hobby apart from procreation, you invariably find yourself in San Francisco. It's happened over and over throughout history, from Babylon to Greece to Rome -- and now again, much closer to home.

Not far from that extreme, you find many of today's Western men and women. In terms of the future of our civilization, the lifestyle of gay couples is no different from childless heteros. The demographic results are identical. What we smugly call "post-Christian" is just a self-indulgent term for a re-paganized culture. Of course, unlike ancient Romans, we are far more advanced. Our contemporary genius frees us from the burden of childbearing. Our modern conceit and cleverness encourages us to commit cultural suicide, all the while congratulating ourselves on our superiority to others, past and present.

That is a textbook wanker.

Today, we can easily see Western civilization succumbing to Islam simply because the West lost the will to survive. A Catholic might say our fondness for contraception has frustrated the will of God. If that's true, the endgame has a deafeningly biblical ring to it -- an insult to God followed by the usual chastisement: foreign domination. Although presented as a blessing, the divine statement "increase and multiply" is also a command. Defying it comes with a price. The coming storm won't be an isolated eruption that destroys a couple of cities; this one threatens an entire civilization.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

"Although presented as a blessing, the divine statement "increase and multiply" is also a command. Defying it comes with a price."

__________________________

What many people don't know is that the verse in Genesis says:

“Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Granted, some people interpret that as "subdue the earth from Satan." I don't. Isn't the earth "subdued" enough already? For starters, that Texas-sized patch of garbage in the Pacific isn't gone - it's just in pieces, some submerged.

This American Thinker blog is a goldmine of reactionary turds! Thanks for the chuckles today.

larious :BS

I am confused as to what they base this fear of "extinction" on, considering the global population is bursting at the seams, there are nearly a million kids up for adoption or in foster care in the United States alone, and people (including children) are literally starving to death around the world. That, and it's entertaining how they assume the entire population (over 7 million) of San Francisco is homosexual and that if people use birth control or have gay sex then the whole world will turn into San Francisco too.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

I'm amazed that anyone can look at the level of overpopulation and think that we're on our way to extinction from lack of breeding. Anyone capable of simple math would laugh in their faces.

And that's not even considering that overpopulation is a HUGE threat to our long term survivability as a species.

"...We sophisticated moderns are so far beyond our animalistic urges that pornography is a $100-billion-a-year industry. While it's fair to assume that man's interest in procreative activities hasn't diminished in two thousand years, it does seem that his interest in procreation has. At least in the West.When contemporary Western man manages to rip himself away from his computer or television screen and actually make love to a woman, the odds are that there will be no baby. With cheap and easy birth control, the exercise is limited: He seeks his pleasure, she strives to avoid the consequence. End of story...."


Here it's amusing how he makes the following assumptions in the one small paragraph: 1)Only men watch or use pornography 2)Only men are interested in "procreative" activities:sx, 3)Most men (and apparently ONLY men) spend their lives glued to the television or computer, 4)The use of birth control makes the "exercise" a "limited" and cheap thrill, 5)The only activity in "making love" is missionary style heterosexual intercourse, 6)Sex is for a man to seek and fulfill his own pleasure, and 7)The woman isn't the one seeking or getting pleasure from the sex, but is only striving to avoid the consequence of sex, which is only pregnancy

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

Sadly, I think he's trying to elude to the extinction of snow white fundies.
He clearly has an issue with Muslims becoming more prolific than the almighty Christian.
Pure racist bullshit.

"American Thinker". Yeah it pretty much sounds like someone's been spending too long on the john letting their legs fall asleep while they're busy thinking.

People only pro-create because they feel pressure to make an improvement on their lot in life. No one who's genuinely happy and satisfied with their own life decides to have children. I don't give a shit what they claim. No one has children because their lives are already blissful and they want to 'share' it with children. NO ONE. If that were true, we'd have 50 million happy, prosperous, single adults volunteering all their time every day at the YMCA, the Scouts, teaching, tutoring, and mentoring. Which we don't. Because people can't stand being around children, frankly, if they're honest with themselves.

People who have happy lives do want a mate and friends to share it with -- who are their peers and their equals -- those who understand and appreciate life's journey and are on the same level. Children are not. Everyone knows that introducing children into your life is like introducing pirhana into your carefully cultivated tropical aquarium that it took you 30 years to develop. You only do it if you a) fucked up so badly that nothing could make your situation worse, b) everyone you know demands that you do it immediately because it's wonderful and that's what you're expected to do, c) you truly don't give a shit.

- - - - - - - -
"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

You know what's going to happen after I'm dead?

I'm not going to care anymore.

And the same goes for a Religious Fundie who goes to "heaven" - he's not going to be here anymore.

So why does he care?

It's ego centrism and his own belief in his superiority.

His logic fails because his ideas are already in place and they *are not working*.

~ I am using the term 'he' here - because from what I have seen - it is mostly men who are into this hard core Conservative ideology - and I strongly suspect the reason *why* is because they are weak minded and insecure people. If only the world ran some different way, then they too might have sex and success ~

The other thing people like this fail to consider - is that there are upcoming variables that we cannot forecast.

As example - Jesus and Bigfoot might come down off a UFO and start an entirely new religion which renders our current systems of society, thought, etc, completely obsolete.

Hey - ALL possibilities exist

More practically - there could be world wide or even serious localized environmental disasters which of course we can all see right now such as Japan / Fukushima, US Gulf Coast oil spill, Hurricane Katrina, eruption of Vesuvius as a past example, etc.

You CANNOT KNOW what will happen, not completely.

One thing that we CAN see is that over populated societies tend to collapse or live in squalor. The more advanced you go, the LESS people.

And resources ARE running out.

We CAN see these things and more people are NOT going to help!

The ONLY thing they will help with is for the exploitation of their labor / make $ off their backs. You can already SEE this too - because no one (biz investors, people in general) cares about shit hole countries or regions with NO resources.

Africa? Sure there's some resources, but the cost of extracting them and transport (there is NO infrastructure in most of this entire continent) - it's not worth bothering with, little profit motive.

Hence - no one cares.

Is anyone encouraging THEM to have more kids?

Compare it to the Middle East. And to some extent Russia. These people *have stuff* that the US as well as the rest of the world *wants* - hence - there's your involvement with them.

If there was no oil in Afghanistan, do you think we'd give ONE shit over some peasant woman being beaten to death in Iraq?

Are any of these people really a serious threat? I'm still waitn on WW3.

So, from this angle, you have to ask yourself *why* they want *you* to breed. It's to make $ off your back, fill the armed forces ranks, produce more consumers -

If you had no use *to them* - rest assured they'd NOT want you to breed, and would be ignoring you if you're lucky, bombing the shit out of you otherwise.

I get into arguments with forced birthers all the time where they deny the movement is about controlling women and sex. They deny that the anti-choice movement is hostile to birth control when the evidence is abundant all over the internet.

"...Today, we can easily see Western civilization succumbing to Islam simply because the West lost the will to survive. A Catholic might say our fondness for contraception has frustrated the will of God. If that's true, the endgame has a deafeningly biblical ring to it -- an insult to God followed by the usual chastisement: foreign domination. Although presented as a blessing, the divine statement "increase and multiply" is also a command. Defying it comes with a price. The coming storm won't be an isolated eruption that destroys a couple of cities; this one threatens an entire civilization...."



To my knowledge, biblical times were entirely set in African, European, and Asian countries, at least how or where we would label them as being today. Other than some confusing civil wars mentioned in the bible. God mainly just responded to "insults" with angry environmental and supernatural things like floods, fires, turning people into salt, making them barren, causing famine, or placing permanent marks or other curses upon them. No where in the bible do I know of any place where it talks about God's "usual" chastisement being "foreign domination". If Asian, European, and African nations during biblical times were mentioned in the bible as dominating one or the other because God was insulted, then I don't recall it.

Therefore, I fail to see how the analogy can be made that if God is insulted by intentional childlessness his "usual chastisement" of "foreign domination", in this case being global dominion by Muslims and/or Islam, makes any sense, but then none of what this one has to say makes sense to me anyway.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

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kidlesskim
if people use birth control or have gay sex then the whole world will turn into San Francisco too.

Considering that San Fran is a beautiful and affluent city, many third world shitholes would benefit from birth control getting them a few steps closer to there.

That said, their gawd is insulted and thwarted by modern science, what ever happened to omnipotence? If they worship an entity who is confounded by a 6" square piece of paper-thin latex or a simple tablet of hormones, he is an impotent, weak, and ineffectual tyrant indeed.

I was thinking about this in terms of "Muslim Hate" and it struck me as ironic that one group of religiously fanatical nomadic herders has been trained to hate another group of religiously fanatical nomadic herders.

Bit of self loathing perhaps? The more conspiracy minded might think these things are even by design...

Also, I was thinking of the (US) Far Right in general and their mindset on all these various issues and in case anyone wonders *where* this came from - the finger points to Scotland. Yeah, no kidding. (I will put some links at the end for further reading.)

These people, "Hill Billies", "Rednecks", in common parlance originated in Scotland. They were the bottom of the barrel DREGS of society, Scotland didn't want them, Ireland didn't want them, Wales didn't want them, and they couldn't ship them out fast enough.

And who wanted them in the US? If you guessed greedy and fearful land owners, you are correct.

This criminal class of "Scots - Irish" was deliberately brought into the US thinking they would function as a sort of armed guard to keep the Indians away from the Old Southern plantations.

These are the people who wound up in the "hills" of the US South, especially in the Appalachian Mountains.

They were ignorant there, and they are ignorant here, many right up to the present day.

** Please keep in mind that I am in no way denigrating *all* of the people from *any* of these areas. I am speaking specifically of just that group that is wantonly criminal and ignorant. **

There are plenty of guesses as to *why* they are the way they are, also ~

I remembered this as I happened to stumble upon a thought in a book the other day - which had to do with murder from the angle of evolutionary psychology. It was opined in this book that many US Southerners are more violent as they came from herding people (Scots Irish) who's entire livelihood could be wiped out by the thieving of their herd. And as many were thieves themselves, they have a mindset of suspicion. As well as rationalizing violence via fanatical religious beliefs.

As opposed to farmers who own land - which cannot be "stolen" (in a simple fashion, anyway.) Thus, those who gained footholds in agriculture were thought to be more tolerant of 'outsiders' and perhaps a bit further 'evolved'. Also willing to work in co operative fashions, such as grain co ops, organized harvest crews, labor lending for barn raising, etc.

You take herding people though, they are insular, clannish, and fearful of loss. Consider many thoughts coming from "The South" such as ~ The Blacks will steal (poach) our women. We don't want taxes (property poaching). ANY outsider or those 'different' are a threat ('outsiders' come to poach.) There is to be no co operation (socialism) unless it is within the clan (family).

These people are largely still stuck in the middle ages, much like their Middle Eastern Muslim counterparts.

And from these people, the "Borderers" or "Scots Irish" comes much of the underpinnings of Neo Con Right Wing thought today. It is all directly related to these people, their mindset and culture.

You can read more here ~
Borderers

Scotch Irish

Quote
lenona
"Although presented as a blessing, the divine statement "increase and multiply" is also a command. Defying it comes with a price."

__________________________

What many people don't know is that the verse in Genesis says:

“Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Granted, some people interpret that as "subdue the earth from Satan." I don't. Isn't the earth "subdued" enough already? For starters, that Texas-sized patch of garbage in the Pacific isn't gone - it's just in pieces, some submerged.

Not only that, but that so-called "command" appears only in the Ch 1 creation story (the newer one) compared to Genesis Ch 2 which is the older creation story. God never told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, he told them not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. Fundie Christians routinely fuck up the two stories because they're fucking retarded. But that is what happens when one decides to blindly follow a cherry-picked whacko religious doctrine.

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kidlesskim


Therefore, I fail to see how the analogy can be made that if God is insulted by intentional childlessness his "usual chastisement" of "foreign domination", in this case being global dominion by Muslims and/or Islam, makes any sense, but then none of what this one has to say makes sense to me anyway.

Have you ever read "Quiverfull" by Kathryn Joyce?

Joyce devotes a whole chapter to the reasoning behind the breeding and the religious right in the USA in response to Islam, Europe, and 9-11. The average number of kids Muslims have in Europe is 6. The fundie Christians take the view that it is important that they try to outnumber the Muslims by outbreeding them in order to protect the USA from them. The religious right has an easier time breeding little Bible-preaching robots compared to "winning hearts" of adults who have no intention of converting to further the cause. Of course, that is not to say their little darlings at some point in their lives will give up on the cause, or worse yet, convert to Islam, which defeats the original intent of the whacko Quiverfull movement.

My interpretation of Genesis 1:28 and some of the words used in that verse are below in red.

Genesis 1:28" And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."


Blessed
http://www.realtime.net/~wdoud/topics/blessing.html
Doesn't have a literal translation from Greek to English, but most closely literally means "say good things to". Therefore, it doesn't necessarily mean God gave Adam and Eve a command to multiply to any certain number of people and he never said yield an over abundance of people with the "fruitful" comment either.

Fruitful
a : yielding or producing fruit
b : conducive to an abundant yield-NOT OVER abundance

Subdue
1. To conquer and subjugate; vanquish.
2. To quiet or bring under control by physical force or persuasion; make tractable.
3. To make less intense or prominent; tone down
All of which could be interpreted to physically take control of OVER abundance, or over population.

Replenish
Fill (something) up again.
Restore (a stock or supply of something) to the former level or condition.
refill - fill
So, God didn't necessarily mean for them to "replenish" the Earth with any additional people than necessary to keep it at the present level at that time, which has always been a point of debate among most religious people in general as to the actual meaning of that anyway. Apparently, he created people to die at the same time he created them to live or there wouldn't NEED to be a reason to "replenish". Some believe Adam and Eve were just representative of many other "first people" God created all over the world, which makes sense since he created animals, water, and vegetation WELL beyond the Garden of Eden that they couldn't possibly use and have a need to replenish. Right before God told them to be fruitful and multiply in Genesis, he said the same thing after he created the water and sky creatures:

Genesis 1:20 " And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth..."


Notice how God tells the animals to actually FILL the water and skies and to multiply, but he tells Adam and Eve to simply, "replenish" with their multiplication of people. Presumably this is because he created the vegetation, water, and animals for human consumption so therefore, those creations would need to continually increase in number, but not the people. Note also how God doesn't tell the animals to "subdue" anything either, but only tells that to Adam and Eve leaving the humans responsible for using basic common sense and not to just fuck themselves silly until the Earth was bursting at the seams with humans. By messing up the delicate balance God created by their misinterpretation of this one verse, religious fundamentalists are killing off the animals and vegetation God created and sucking dry the original abundant water supply by creating an over abundance of people.

Perhaps he should have created an 8th day and gathered all of the starter humans together and better explained what he meant when he said, to "go forth and multiply and replenish the Earth..." NOT to fill it to maximum capacity until it can no longer sustain life of any kind!":headbrick

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

The problem when people try to use G-d's word to back up their own point (especially a catholic/fundementalist problem, imho)
is that they don't look at the time it was written, the circumstances it was written and who it was written to. Back in the days of Noah, re-population was a HUGE issue. It was worth almost anything to get a baby, including incest, poligamy and keeping sometimes hundereds of concubines (girlfriends). The whole issue with gays being "an abomination", many believe it's not because GAYS are abominal, but because the sex was sterile. That's why gay men got so much heat back them and not lesbians. What women do isn't considered sex under Biblical law, and since the man "put the baby in the woman" (which was the scientific thought of the day), women were just carriers and not part of the actual creating process.

Logic tells us that not only is is this no longer an issue (as the people who are reproducing are keeping the population up), but there is an inherent need for some people NOT to reproduce to balance things out. And many, be it out of sexual preference or infertility issues, will provide homes for homeless kids (another Biblical mandate, to provide for widdows and orphens), or will become guides and mentors, ALSO a Biblical mandate. Getting pregnant and giving birth are by far not the only ways to serve G-d.

Full disclosure, I'm a faithful believer in G-d and the Messiah. Seeing this kind of garbage just breaks my heart. I resent them using my faith to justify their hatred and mysogyny.

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chicken lady
The problem when people try to use G-d's word to back up their own point (especially a catholic/fundementalist problem, imho)
is that they don't look at the time it was written, the circumstances it was written and who it was written to. Back in the days of Noah, re-population was a HUGE issue. It was worth almost anything to get a baby, including incest, poligamy and keeping sometimes hundereds of concubines (girlfriends). The whole issue with gays being "an abomination", many believe it's not because GAYS are abominal, but because the sex was sterile. That's why gay men got so much heat back them and not lesbians. What women do isn't considered sex under Biblical law, and since the man "put the baby in the woman" (which was the scientific thought of the day), women were just carriers and not part of the actual creating process.

Logic tells us that not only is is this no longer an issue (as the people who are reproducing are keeping the population up), but there is an inherent need for some people NOT to reproduce to balance things out. And many, be it out of sexual preference or infertility issues, will provide homes for homeless kids (another Biblical mandate, to provide for widdows and orphens), or will become guides and mentors, ALSO a Biblical mandate. Getting pregnant and giving birth are by far not the only ways to serve G-d.

Full disclosure, I'm a faithful believer in G-d and the Messiah. Seeing this kind of garbage just breaks my heart. I resent them using my faith to justify their hatred and mysogyny.

This. I have my faith and am saved, but this nutty fundie bs gives other faiths a bad name and rep.

---

lab mom

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WaterLily
This. I have my faith and am saved, but this nutty fundie bs gives other faiths a bad name and rep.

People are saved in different ways