lenona
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 15, 2012 |
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 15, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,843 |
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 2,301 |
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 8,402 |
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reddog345
It seems like it would work in theory but not in reality. I have heard stories from several people around my dad's age that makes me doubt it will work in these times.
My HS law teacher said that the school system I attended stopped doing corporal punishment because the staff was incapable of administering it fairly. Mostly the ones who needed it the most never got beat, such as the jocks and popular kids. Plus back in those days, race played a factor.
My dad, when he was in high school in Southeast GA [he's 50 something now], said that they were very unfair with the paddle. He still remembers the incident where a white teacher tried to paddle a black student for some reason, probably unfairly and it turned into a school-wide race riot, with the teacher beaten. They discontinued it after that incident.
I went to a small private Christian school that practiced it, but no one got in enough trouble for it to be necessary.
It seems like the current generation of students are worse from my observations and if you try to use physical punishment in any form, you'd probably cause a massive disturbance as they will fight back, especially with Middle/High Schoolers. This doesn't include the other issues I haven't even though of.
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 8,402 |
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lenona
What the hell, here's Rosemond's column, from 1994:
http://alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=5720114
Public reaction to the the sentencing of 18-year-old Michael Fay to be caned handed down for egging and spray-painting a number of automobiles over a 10-day period in Singapore has been surprisingly favorable, even in his hometown of Daytpn, Ohio. According to polls, close to 4 in 10 Americans feel he's going (perhaps) to get exactly what he deserves. This reaction, the pundits tell us, is a collective expression of having ``had it'' with crime, criminals, and courts that seem to put the ``rights'' of the lawbreakers over the need for an orderly, safe society. Fay's behavior also is viewed as symptomatic of generally lax parental discipline. The message presumably being sent to parents: start controlling your kids! Spank them now, lest they be flogged later.
Not to mention that America's anti-spanking movement has suffered a serious setback, the general reaction to Fay's punishment raises a number of questions, the first of which is, ``what does it mean?'' My theory: not outrage, but hypocrisy.
In the first place, the pollsters asked the wrong question. Instead of ``Do you approve of the sentence given Michael Fay?'' they should have asked, ``How would you feel about the sentence if Michael Fay was your son?''
If the question had been personalized, I'll just bet 99.9 percent of those polled would have said the sentence was barbaric, unjust, a violation of fundamental human rights. If Fay was their own flesh and blood, most red-blooded Americans probably would be in favor of sending an elite Marine strike force to Singapore to liberate him and bring him home a national hero.
And what if Ohio legislators, responding to the polls, passed a law mandating public floggings for vandalism and petty theft. How many of their constituents would approve? Not many, I'd venture, and the majority of those that did probably would keep their bizarre opinion to themselves.
The applause you hear concerning Fay's fate is sanitary. As long as one has no emotional tie to some overgrown brat who went on a behavioral binge in some far-off place few of us have visited and probably never will, it's safe to say, ``Hell, yeah! Beat him!'' This is neither righteousness nor a reaction to rising crime at home. It's hypocrisy, pure and simple.
This whole matter also rings with the hypocrisy of parents who think everybody else should do a better job of controlling their kids, of holding them accountable for their actions. One of the more disturbing things veteran teachers tell me is today's parents seem generally unable to accept that their children occasionally do bad things. All too often, when a teacher reports a child's misconduct, today's parents tend to toss the hot potato back at the teacher: ``You must be mistaken,'' they say, or ``My child's never had this problem with any other teacher,'' or they criticize how the teacher handled the problem. The child is rarely wrong. Rather, he's been misunderstood, unfairly singled out, or his ``self-esteem'' has been compromised by a teacher who chastised him in front of the class.
Fay's father says his son's problem is Attention Deficit Disorder. Translate: ``He shouldn't be held responsible for his actions.'' Someone needs to tell Dad that you learn to accept responsibility for yourself if people don't make excuses for you. Besides, Fay's behavior in Singapore suggests not ADD, but CDD Citizenship Deficit Disorder. The boy's lack of respect for private property signals a general lack of respect for others, the first requirement of good citizenship. We might attribute one isolated act of vandalism to a temporary upsurge of testosterone. But a rampage over 10 days' time? I think not. This is the behavior of a person who is chronologically 18 and emotionally a toddler. Regardless, he should be punished.
But a flogging? Personally, the idea makes me sick. And to those who defend Singapore's use of corporal punishment by pointing to their low crime rate, I ask, since when did the ends justify the means?
(end)
And here's a VERY interesting follow-up, which some of you may have heard about (it suggests that Fay was scapegoated, big-time - that is, he may have been guilty of some things, but not the vandalism):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1290&dat=19940601&id=YbgzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c40DAAAAIBAJ&pg=3325,88178
To read it, move the little blue rectangle on the right.
Quote: "Was Singapore sending America a message; trying, perhaps, to call our bluff on human rights?"
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 8,402 |
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JohnDrake
I went to a few different types of schools(private, public, Christian) when I was a kid(70s-80s) and some of them did practice corporal punishment. I remember one incident in which a kid had a huge black and blue mark on the back of his leg because the principal beat him with the buckle end of a belt. This is an extreme incident but even if I hadn't seen this, I'd still think school shouldn't paddle for reasons already mentioned.
In the schools I went to where it was administered, it was never administered fairly. There were plenty of kids who misbehaved and never got it, and girls never got paddled no matter what they did. People have gotten offended when I say things like this, but girls are NOT sugar and spice and everything nice as the old nursery rhyme goes. I went to school with a few who were actually worse than some of the boys were.Quote
LucyTrainWreck
P.S. I'm so aggravated by some of the kids who have no consequences at home. I can see the frustrated looks on students' faces who want to learn.
That is why I think most school discipline other than removing the troublesome student isn't effective because the discipline isn't reinforced at home. If I got in trouble for any reason, I caught hell when I got home so I tried to stay out of trouble. I knew other kids who had parents who didn't care what they did at school and they'd get paddlings, detentions, suspensions, etc., and of course the behavior didn't change. Kicking them out didn't straighten them up, but it did keep them from disrupting the students who wanted to learn.
JD
lenona
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 |
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zatoth
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lenona
And here's a VERY interesting follow-up, which some of you may have heard about (it suggests that Fay was scapegoated, big-time - that is, he may have been guilty of some things, but not the vandalism):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1290&dat=19940601&id=YbgzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c40DAAAAIBAJ&pg=3325,88178
To read it, move the little blue rectangle on the right.
Quote: "Was Singapore sending America a message; trying, perhaps, to call our bluff on human rights?"
First up-douchenozzle was warned about what goes on in Singapore. You have these dopes who go into these other cultures and think they should get the little juvy hand slap they get here. I think he vandalized shit and then tossed out a pity party card when he realized his ass was gonna be kicked.
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 454 |
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 1,449 |
This makes sense. I don't understand how you can get in a fight with someone and then end up being their best friend. I don't get it. If you push me to that fighting point, I'll hate your ass for life. It is over.Quote
zatoth
On the thing about girls-that is sooo true. I think in guys, fighting is a kind of hard wired way of proving themselves socially worthy. Most incidents-not all-end after one kid and the other have a fight. Guys can hate each other's guts, get into a knocked down dragged out fight and be best buds afterward. Girls are more sadistic and conspiring. It does not take much to piss them off and make enemies.
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,603 |
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lenona
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zatoth
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lenona
And here's a VERY interesting follow-up, which some of you may have heard about (it suggests that Fay was scapegoated, big-time - that is, he may have been guilty of some things, but not the vandalism):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1290&dat=19940601&id=YbgzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c40DAAAAIBAJ&pg=3325,88178
To read it, move the little blue rectangle on the right.
Quote: "Was Singapore sending America a message; trying, perhaps, to call our bluff on human rights?"
First up-douchenozzle was warned about what goes on in Singapore. You have these dopes who go into these other cultures and think they should get the little juvy hand slap they get here. I think he vandalized shit and then tossed out a pity party card when he realized his ass was gonna be kicked.
Um, did you READ the follow-up above? Given what we've heard about Singapore by now, it wouldn't surprise me if Fay DIDN'T commit the vandalism. Sorry that I can't just copy and paste the second column as I did the first. Tell me what you think of it.
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,440 |
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,367 |