Should public schools allow spanking as punishment?
Posted by michaela
lenona
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 15, 2012 |
What the hell, here's Rosemond's column, from 1994:
http://alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=5720114
Public reaction to the the sentencing of 18-year-old Michael Fay to be caned handed down for egging and spray-painting a number of automobiles over a 10-day period in Singapore has been surprisingly favorable, even in his hometown of Daytpn, Ohio. According to polls, close to 4 in 10 Americans feel he's going (perhaps) to get exactly what he deserves. This reaction, the pundits tell us, is a collective expression of having ``had it'' with crime, criminals, and courts that seem to put the ``rights'' of the lawbreakers over the need for an orderly, safe society. Fay's behavior also is viewed as symptomatic of generally lax parental discipline. The message presumably being sent to parents: start controlling your kids! Spank them now, lest they be flogged later.
Not to mention that America's anti-spanking movement has suffered a serious setback, the general reaction to Fay's punishment raises a number of questions, the first of which is, ``what does it mean?'' My theory: not outrage, but hypocrisy.
In the first place, the pollsters asked the wrong question. Instead of ``Do you approve of the sentence given Michael Fay?'' they should have asked, ``How would you feel about the sentence if Michael Fay was your son?''
If the question had been personalized, I'll just bet 99.9 percent of those polled would have said the sentence was barbaric, unjust, a violation of fundamental human rights. If Fay was their own flesh and blood, most red-blooded Americans probably would be in favor of sending an elite Marine strike force to Singapore to liberate him and bring him home a national hero.
And what if Ohio legislators, responding to the polls, passed a law mandating public floggings for vandalism and petty theft. How many of their constituents would approve? Not many, I'd venture, and the majority of those that did probably would keep their bizarre opinion to themselves.
The applause you hear concerning Fay's fate is sanitary. As long as one has no emotional tie to some overgrown brat who went on a behavioral binge in some far-off place few of us have visited and probably never will, it's safe to say, ``Hell, yeah! Beat him!'' This is neither righteousness nor a reaction to rising crime at home. It's hypocrisy, pure and simple.
This whole matter also rings with the hypocrisy of parents who think everybody else should do a better job of controlling their kids, of holding them accountable for their actions. One of the more disturbing things veteran teachers tell me is today's parents seem generally unable to accept that their children occasionally do bad things. All too often, when a teacher reports a child's misconduct, today's parents tend to toss the hot potato back at the teacher: ``You must be mistaken,'' they say, or ``My child's never had this problem with any other teacher,'' or they criticize how the teacher handled the problem. The child is rarely wrong. Rather, he's been misunderstood, unfairly singled out, or his ``self-esteem'' has been compromised by a teacher who chastised him in front of the class.
Fay's father says his son's problem is Attention Deficit Disorder. Translate: ``He shouldn't be held responsible for his actions.'' Someone needs to tell Dad that you learn to accept responsibility for yourself if people don't make excuses for you. Besides, Fay's behavior in Singapore suggests not ADD, but CDD Citizenship Deficit Disorder. The boy's lack of respect for private property signals a general lack of respect for others, the first requirement of good citizenship. We might attribute one isolated act of vandalism to a temporary upsurge of testosterone. But a rampage over 10 days' time? I think not. This is the behavior of a person who is chronologically 18 and emotionally a toddler. Regardless, he should be punished.
But a flogging? Personally, the idea makes me sick. And to those who defend Singapore's use of corporal punishment by pointing to their low crime rate, I ask, since when did the ends justify the means?
(end)
And here's a VERY interesting follow-up, which some of you may have heard about (it suggests that Fay was scapegoated, big-time - that is, he may have been guilty of some things, but not the vandalism):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1290&dat=19940601&id=YbgzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c40DAAAAIBAJ&pg=3325,88178
To read it, move the little blue rectangle on the right.
Quote: "Was Singapore sending America a message; trying, perhaps, to call our bluff on human rights?"
http://alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=5720114
Public reaction to the the sentencing of 18-year-old Michael Fay to be caned handed down for egging and spray-painting a number of automobiles over a 10-day period in Singapore has been surprisingly favorable, even in his hometown of Daytpn, Ohio. According to polls, close to 4 in 10 Americans feel he's going (perhaps) to get exactly what he deserves. This reaction, the pundits tell us, is a collective expression of having ``had it'' with crime, criminals, and courts that seem to put the ``rights'' of the lawbreakers over the need for an orderly, safe society. Fay's behavior also is viewed as symptomatic of generally lax parental discipline. The message presumably being sent to parents: start controlling your kids! Spank them now, lest they be flogged later.
Not to mention that America's anti-spanking movement has suffered a serious setback, the general reaction to Fay's punishment raises a number of questions, the first of which is, ``what does it mean?'' My theory: not outrage, but hypocrisy.
In the first place, the pollsters asked the wrong question. Instead of ``Do you approve of the sentence given Michael Fay?'' they should have asked, ``How would you feel about the sentence if Michael Fay was your son?''
If the question had been personalized, I'll just bet 99.9 percent of those polled would have said the sentence was barbaric, unjust, a violation of fundamental human rights. If Fay was their own flesh and blood, most red-blooded Americans probably would be in favor of sending an elite Marine strike force to Singapore to liberate him and bring him home a national hero.
And what if Ohio legislators, responding to the polls, passed a law mandating public floggings for vandalism and petty theft. How many of their constituents would approve? Not many, I'd venture, and the majority of those that did probably would keep their bizarre opinion to themselves.
The applause you hear concerning Fay's fate is sanitary. As long as one has no emotional tie to some overgrown brat who went on a behavioral binge in some far-off place few of us have visited and probably never will, it's safe to say, ``Hell, yeah! Beat him!'' This is neither righteousness nor a reaction to rising crime at home. It's hypocrisy, pure and simple.
This whole matter also rings with the hypocrisy of parents who think everybody else should do a better job of controlling their kids, of holding them accountable for their actions. One of the more disturbing things veteran teachers tell me is today's parents seem generally unable to accept that their children occasionally do bad things. All too often, when a teacher reports a child's misconduct, today's parents tend to toss the hot potato back at the teacher: ``You must be mistaken,'' they say, or ``My child's never had this problem with any other teacher,'' or they criticize how the teacher handled the problem. The child is rarely wrong. Rather, he's been misunderstood, unfairly singled out, or his ``self-esteem'' has been compromised by a teacher who chastised him in front of the class.
Fay's father says his son's problem is Attention Deficit Disorder. Translate: ``He shouldn't be held responsible for his actions.'' Someone needs to tell Dad that you learn to accept responsibility for yourself if people don't make excuses for you. Besides, Fay's behavior in Singapore suggests not ADD, but CDD Citizenship Deficit Disorder. The boy's lack of respect for private property signals a general lack of respect for others, the first requirement of good citizenship. We might attribute one isolated act of vandalism to a temporary upsurge of testosterone. But a rampage over 10 days' time? I think not. This is the behavior of a person who is chronologically 18 and emotionally a toddler. Regardless, he should be punished.
But a flogging? Personally, the idea makes me sick. And to those who defend Singapore's use of corporal punishment by pointing to their low crime rate, I ask, since when did the ends justify the means?
(end)
And here's a VERY interesting follow-up, which some of you may have heard about (it suggests that Fay was scapegoated, big-time - that is, he may have been guilty of some things, but not the vandalism):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1290&dat=19940601&id=YbgzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c40DAAAAIBAJ&pg=3325,88178
To read it, move the little blue rectangle on the right.
Quote: "Was Singapore sending America a message; trying, perhaps, to call our bluff on human rights?"
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 15, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,842 |
I have to say no. My concern is that someone would enter the teaching profession just to be able to paddle. Why do I think this? Because I went to a college that had an elementary education program and I heard some of the reasons students want to become teachers:
"Accounting is too many numbers"
"Nursing is such hard work"
"Biology is too hard"
"I flunked chemistry"
"I want the benefits"
I fear that someone with a reasons like that is going to be uncontrolled with a paddle and go at somebody like a crazy person.
So glad I don't have kids and never have to deal with a school district.
"Accounting is too many numbers"
"Nursing is such hard work"
"Biology is too hard"
"I flunked chemistry"
"I want the benefits"
I fear that someone with a reasons like that is going to be uncontrolled with a paddle and go at somebody like a crazy person.
So glad I don't have kids and never have to deal with a school district.
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 15, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 7,835 |
A little story from Hirschberg Germany, circa 1938 - my moo is in a small school....run by nuns. One nun disliked little kyds, and enjoys dishing out beatings regularly with a cane. My moo retaliates one day by placing something sharp on her seat. I"m not quite sure what it was, but it was akin to a tack.
Sister Mary Whoop-Ass beat my moo with a cane, within an inch of her life in front of the whole class. My moo goes home crying, covered in cane marks. My Opa, went to the school, grabbed Sister Mary Whoop-Ass by the wimple and told her that if she ever laid a hand on his daughter again, he'd personally rip her a new asshole.
Nun never bothered my moo again....but I gotta admit...my mother was a shitty, bratty little kyd. I know because she told me that she was.
I don't think it's wise to allow someone to have free-range, paddling brat's asses, even though we all know that most kyds deserve it. It's the parents job to dole out corporal punishment....if a kyd becomes a constant problem, I see no problem with expelling him or her...but not ass-whoopings. Giving someone that kind of power is just not cool. There will be at least a few people who abuse it.
Sister Mary Whoop-Ass beat my moo with a cane, within an inch of her life in front of the whole class. My moo goes home crying, covered in cane marks. My Opa, went to the school, grabbed Sister Mary Whoop-Ass by the wimple and told her that if she ever laid a hand on his daughter again, he'd personally rip her a new asshole.
Nun never bothered my moo again....but I gotta admit...my mother was a shitty, bratty little kyd. I know because she told me that she was.
I don't think it's wise to allow someone to have free-range, paddling brat's asses, even though we all know that most kyds deserve it. It's the parents job to dole out corporal punishment....if a kyd becomes a constant problem, I see no problem with expelling him or her...but not ass-whoopings. Giving someone that kind of power is just not cool. There will be at least a few people who abuse it.
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 15, 2012 | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 1,449 |
larious|
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 15, 2012 | Registered: 18 years ago Posts: 9,976 |
I don't know, I think a lot of modern feral brats of all ages deserve a few good whacks with a paddle because their parents are too spineless to punish them at all. I don't think current school punishments really work all that well; you throw a kid out and s/he sees it as a vacation from class for being a bastard. No homework for out-of-school suspension either - sure, those assignments are all zeroes, but in the kid's mind, that's no work.
Moo and Duh don't discipline their kids and they fight teachers who try to punish the kids or give them bad grades, meanwhile while Tardleigh is doing laps around the room screaming, 20 other kids are trying real hard to concentrate. I think being able to throw a kid over a desk and wallop him with a paddle would be a good thing - teach him to fucking behave, humiliate him, and have it serve as a warning to other students. Of course the only parents who would give permission to let their kids get spanked are the ones who would never need to get paddled to begin with.
But I could see where it could become an abuse of power and a teacher or principal smacking kids just because they can or smacking kids they don't like for every tiny little infraction while the troublemakers who kiss teacher ass or, in high school, show enough cleavage or panties get away with everything.
I think it would be more beneficial than not, as long as it's not used for every tiny little thing a kid does wrong. Everybody makes a mistake now and then and an otherwise good kid may just require a verbal warning or a detention to learn to behave, but the bigger brats will likely not be swayed by such punishments, especially when they go home and Mommy tells them the big mean teacher was all wrong and Junior did nothing bad and he's a perfect angel.
Moo and Duh don't discipline their kids and they fight teachers who try to punish the kids or give them bad grades, meanwhile while Tardleigh is doing laps around the room screaming, 20 other kids are trying real hard to concentrate. I think being able to throw a kid over a desk and wallop him with a paddle would be a good thing - teach him to fucking behave, humiliate him, and have it serve as a warning to other students. Of course the only parents who would give permission to let their kids get spanked are the ones who would never need to get paddled to begin with.
But I could see where it could become an abuse of power and a teacher or principal smacking kids just because they can or smacking kids they don't like for every tiny little infraction while the troublemakers who kiss teacher ass or, in high school, show enough cleavage or panties get away with everything.
I think it would be more beneficial than not, as long as it's not used for every tiny little thing a kid does wrong. Everybody makes a mistake now and then and an otherwise good kid may just require a verbal warning or a detention to learn to behave, but the bigger brats will likely not be swayed by such punishments, especially when they go home and Mommy tells them the big mean teacher was all wrong and Junior did nothing bad and he's a perfect angel.
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 2,301 |
I'd be just as happy if they could use a belt but the paddle is OK. Most of these little bastards have NO discipline at home and thus are disruptive and make problems for everyone else. I do agree that it should be for serious infractions. When I was in parochial school they used the paddle only for pretty serious stuff. I don't think a little discipline is going to hurt these brats.
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 8,402 |
Quote
reddog345
It seems like it would work in theory but not in reality. I have heard stories from several people around my dad's age that makes me doubt it will work in these times.
My HS law teacher said that the school system I attended stopped doing corporal punishment because the staff was incapable of administering it fairly. Mostly the ones who needed it the most never got beat, such as the jocks and popular kids. Plus back in those days, race played a factor.
My dad, when he was in high school in Southeast GA [he's 50 something now], said that they were very unfair with the paddle. He still remembers the incident where a white teacher tried to paddle a black student for some reason, probably unfairly and it turned into a school-wide race riot, with the teacher beaten. They discontinued it after that incident.
I went to a small private Christian school that practiced it, but no one got in enough trouble for it to be necessary.
It seems like the current generation of students are worse from my observations and if you try to use physical punishment in any form, you'd probably cause a massive disturbance as they will fight back, especially with Middle/High Schoolers. This doesn't include the other issues I haven't even though of.
That's WHY it does not work in practice-punishment must be consistent. You can't have one teacher following the rules and another spanking only kids he does not like and have it work.
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 8,402 |
Quote
lenona
What the hell, here's Rosemond's column, from 1994:
http://alb.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=5720114
Public reaction to the the sentencing of 18-year-old Michael Fay to be caned handed down for egging and spray-painting a number of automobiles over a 10-day period in Singapore has been surprisingly favorable, even in his hometown of Daytpn, Ohio. According to polls, close to 4 in 10 Americans feel he's going (perhaps) to get exactly what he deserves. This reaction, the pundits tell us, is a collective expression of having ``had it'' with crime, criminals, and courts that seem to put the ``rights'' of the lawbreakers over the need for an orderly, safe society. Fay's behavior also is viewed as symptomatic of generally lax parental discipline. The message presumably being sent to parents: start controlling your kids! Spank them now, lest they be flogged later.
Not to mention that America's anti-spanking movement has suffered a serious setback, the general reaction to Fay's punishment raises a number of questions, the first of which is, ``what does it mean?'' My theory: not outrage, but hypocrisy.
In the first place, the pollsters asked the wrong question. Instead of ``Do you approve of the sentence given Michael Fay?'' they should have asked, ``How would you feel about the sentence if Michael Fay was your son?''
If the question had been personalized, I'll just bet 99.9 percent of those polled would have said the sentence was barbaric, unjust, a violation of fundamental human rights. If Fay was their own flesh and blood, most red-blooded Americans probably would be in favor of sending an elite Marine strike force to Singapore to liberate him and bring him home a national hero.
And what if Ohio legislators, responding to the polls, passed a law mandating public floggings for vandalism and petty theft. How many of their constituents would approve? Not many, I'd venture, and the majority of those that did probably would keep their bizarre opinion to themselves.
The applause you hear concerning Fay's fate is sanitary. As long as one has no emotional tie to some overgrown brat who went on a behavioral binge in some far-off place few of us have visited and probably never will, it's safe to say, ``Hell, yeah! Beat him!'' This is neither righteousness nor a reaction to rising crime at home. It's hypocrisy, pure and simple.
This whole matter also rings with the hypocrisy of parents who think everybody else should do a better job of controlling their kids, of holding them accountable for their actions. One of the more disturbing things veteran teachers tell me is today's parents seem generally unable to accept that their children occasionally do bad things. All too often, when a teacher reports a child's misconduct, today's parents tend to toss the hot potato back at the teacher: ``You must be mistaken,'' they say, or ``My child's never had this problem with any other teacher,'' or they criticize how the teacher handled the problem. The child is rarely wrong. Rather, he's been misunderstood, unfairly singled out, or his ``self-esteem'' has been compromised by a teacher who chastised him in front of the class.
Fay's father says his son's problem is Attention Deficit Disorder. Translate: ``He shouldn't be held responsible for his actions.'' Someone needs to tell Dad that you learn to accept responsibility for yourself if people don't make excuses for you. Besides, Fay's behavior in Singapore suggests not ADD, but CDD Citizenship Deficit Disorder. The boy's lack of respect for private property signals a general lack of respect for others, the first requirement of good citizenship. We might attribute one isolated act of vandalism to a temporary upsurge of testosterone. But a rampage over 10 days' time? I think not. This is the behavior of a person who is chronologically 18 and emotionally a toddler. Regardless, he should be punished.
But a flogging? Personally, the idea makes me sick. And to those who defend Singapore's use of corporal punishment by pointing to their low crime rate, I ask, since when did the ends justify the means?
(end)
And here's a VERY interesting follow-up, which some of you may have heard about (it suggests that Fay was scapegoated, big-time - that is, he may have been guilty of some things, but not the vandalism):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1290&dat=19940601&id=YbgzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c40DAAAAIBAJ&pg=3325,88178
To read it, move the little blue rectangle on the right.
Quote: "Was Singapore sending America a message; trying, perhaps, to call our bluff on human rights?"
First up-douchenozzle was warned about what goes on in Singapore. You have these dopes who go into these other cultures and think they should get the little juvy hand slap they get here. I think he vandalized shit and then tossed out a pity party card when he realized his ass was gonna be kicked.
Second-vandalizing cars here is bad enough, since the moron is not going to pony up cash to wash or fix anything if he were here. In Singapore, they might not have I durance or cash to fix what he did. They probably could barely afford the car. And unlike the USA, it might be a fucking embarrassment to have egg and whatever stupid shit he spray painted on their cars.
I had no sympathy for his sorry ass then and I have none now.
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 8,402 |
Quote
JohnDrake
I went to a few different types of schools(private, public, Christian) when I was a kid(70s-80s) and some of them did practice corporal punishment. I remember one incident in which a kid had a huge black and blue mark on the back of his leg because the principal beat him with the buckle end of a belt. This is an extreme incident but even if I hadn't seen this, I'd still think school shouldn't paddle for reasons already mentioned.
In the schools I went to where it was administered, it was never administered fairly. There were plenty of kids who misbehaved and never got it, and girls never got paddled no matter what they did. People have gotten offended when I say things like this, but girls are NOT sugar and spice and everything nice as the old nursery rhyme goes. I went to school with a few who were actually worse than some of the boys were.Quote
LucyTrainWreck
P.S. I'm so aggravated by some of the kids who have no consequences at home. I can see the frustrated looks on students' faces who want to learn.
That is why I think most school discipline other than removing the troublesome student isn't effective because the discipline isn't reinforced at home. If I got in trouble for any reason, I caught hell when I got home so I tried to stay out of trouble. I knew other kids who had parents who didn't care what they did at school and they'd get paddlings, detentions, suspensions, etc., and of course the behavior didn't change. Kicking them out didn't straighten them up, but it did keep them from disrupting the students who wanted to learn.
JD
On the thing about girls-that is sooo true. I think in guys, fighting is a kind of hard wired way of proving themselves socially worthy. Most incidents-not all-end after one kid and the other have a fight. Guys can hate each other's guts, get into a knocked down dragged out fight and be best buds afterward. Girls are more sadistic and conspiring. It does not take much to piss them off and make enemies. I think the reason women were not allowed into the military for long periods of time was because the men felt the entire other side did not need to be annihilated in battle.
lenona
Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 |
Quote
zatoth
Quote
lenona
And here's a VERY interesting follow-up, which some of you may have heard about (it suggests that Fay was scapegoated, big-time - that is, he may have been guilty of some things, but not the vandalism):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1290&dat=19940601&id=YbgzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c40DAAAAIBAJ&pg=3325,88178
To read it, move the little blue rectangle on the right.
Quote: "Was Singapore sending America a message; trying, perhaps, to call our bluff on human rights?"
First up-douchenozzle was warned about what goes on in Singapore. You have these dopes who go into these other cultures and think they should get the little juvy hand slap they get here. I think he vandalized shit and then tossed out a pity party card when he realized his ass was gonna be kicked.
Um, did you READ the follow-up above? Given what we've heard about Singapore by now, it wouldn't surprise me if Fay DIDN'T commit the vandalism. Sorry that I can't just copy and paste the second column as I did the first. Tell me what you think of it.
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 454 |
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 1,449 |
This makes sense. I don't understand how you can get in a fight with someone and then end up being their best friend. I don't get it. If you push me to that fighting point, I'll hate your ass for life. It is over.Quote
zatoth
On the thing about girls-that is sooo true. I think in guys, fighting is a kind of hard wired way of proving themselves socially worthy. Most incidents-not all-end after one kid and the other have a fight. Guys can hate each other's guts, get into a knocked down dragged out fight and be best buds afterward. Girls are more sadistic and conspiring. It does not take much to piss them off and make enemies.
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,603 |
Quote
lenona
Quote
zatoth
Quote
lenona
And here's a VERY interesting follow-up, which some of you may have heard about (it suggests that Fay was scapegoated, big-time - that is, he may have been guilty of some things, but not the vandalism):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1290&dat=19940601&id=YbgzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=c40DAAAAIBAJ&pg=3325,88178
To read it, move the little blue rectangle on the right.
Quote: "Was Singapore sending America a message; trying, perhaps, to call our bluff on human rights?"
First up-douchenozzle was warned about what goes on in Singapore. You have these dopes who go into these other cultures and think they should get the little juvy hand slap they get here. I think he vandalized shit and then tossed out a pity party card when he realized his ass was gonna be kicked.
Um, did you READ the follow-up above? Given what we've heard about Singapore by now, it wouldn't surprise me if Fay DIDN'T commit the vandalism. Sorry that I can't just copy and paste the second column as I did the first. Tell me what you think of it.
I read the article and agree with you. He did admit to stealing signs, but says he didn't do the vandalism. On the other hand, since returning to the U.S., he hasn't exactly been a model citizen.
Michael Fay Wikipedia
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 12,434 |
I don't think physical discipline in the schools will solve the problem. If children come from a home environment where learning is not respected, and patience and hard work are never rewarded, they are not going to learn this from a bit of paddling at school. By all means, boot their asses out of school, so those who want to learn can learn (I think lack of expulsion is a big problem now), but don't waste time trying to change attitudes that are ingrained in famblees.
If you want change, you need to either prevent fuckwits from breeding or have the authority to remove young children from their parents and place them in a different environment if they are troublesome and their breeders refuse to acknowledge and address the problem.
If you want change, you need to either prevent fuckwits from breeding or have the authority to remove young children from their parents and place them in a different environment if they are troublesome and their breeders refuse to acknowledge and address the problem.
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Re: Should public schools allow spanking as punishment? March 16, 2012 | Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,367 |
Agreed that expulsion from school is a better answer than paddling for the real problem chyldren who act out, disrupt class, and so forth. But a side issue that is OT arises from such a policy and should receive our thoughts: we shouldn't just have the expelled yobs wandering the street getting in trouble, right? So why not make placement in a secured boot/work camp necessary after expulsion, at least to age 18 (unless the little turd decides to straighten his act in school)? Put the little disruptive snowflakes to hard labor repairing and rebuilding infrastructure and other such tasks and maybe they'll decide school is a better deal...
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