Made women think... :-}

I tried to be gender neutral.

Again, this can't be more simple...if two parties sign a contract, they both agree to the terms of that contract and agree there will be consequences for breaking that contract. A lot of a marriage contract is not explicitly written in the contract. One may indeed marry a nice, sane, sober person who eventually changes into an evil, crazy, crackhead. It is perfectly acceptable for that person to then END THE CONTRACT and move on with their lives. It is not acceptable for that person to whine "Oh my partner's become an evil, crazy, crackhead...well, I'll just have to find something on the side", because then you see, they're also breaking the contract and a pox on both their houses.

I see the results of this inability to be an adult and simply end the relationship every week in my work. Women coming in to get tested for HIV because their husbands got it from getting banged in the ass by some stranger in a park, men finding out they've got chlamydia because their wife "must have caught it off a toilet seat, that's what she said." (which is impossible). It happens all the time with dire consequences because someone didn't have the backbone to be honest and say "no, I'm not good at monogamy" or "I think I've changed" or "you aren't the person I married". It's an evil thing to do to someone who didn't ask for it simply because you didn't want to own up to your true feelings, hurt the other person or whatever b.s. justification these folks come up with for putting their unknowing, monogamous partners at risk.

i try to be neutral too in a way that shows the obvious stupidity anti male gets anti female. so people can see that its dumb both ways.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

k-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 5. The wife files for unilateral no-fault divorce
> using reasons that would have been considered a
> joke under the old "fault" system: "I'm bored,"
> "I'm not fulfilled," "I don't feel 'loved'," "I
> just don't want to be married any more," etc.
> Studies and stats from around the US do show that
> the wife initiates 70%-80% of all no-fault
> divorces, and none of the standard fault reasons
> such as abuse or adultery are usually given as the
> reason. The men's groups call this "cashing out",
> as she breaks the marriage contract but is not
> only not penalized as anyone else breaking a
> contract would be, but is actually rewarded:
> alimony, child support, and asset splits. Often
> she gets the house and he gets to keep making the
> house payments.

That is the MAIN problem with the divorce laws. It is mostly women who file under the "no fault" because they are "bored", "don't feel fulfilled", "don't feel loved", etc, etc, yet these women still get to cash out as the men's groups state. The women are rewarded for their desire just not to be married anymore. Often, the wives did not put a damned cent into the household. Big deal...she cooked and cleaned. A man can hire out and get off a lot cheaper than buying a live-in whore...oops, I mean a wife. As a feminist, I am MORE on the side of the men's groups. I can see why a man will flip and burn down the house or kill the ex-wife when he has to make the house payments for a home he is not living in while the cunt moves in another fellow.

k-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On some of the men's forums the following comments
> repeatedly appear. Based on the quantity, I'd
> have to say that some grains of truth are
> involved, though I suspect some of this is
> overstated. I present them for your perusal, and
> my comments follow.
>
> 1. Women dramatically reduce or entirely end
> sexual relations after marriage. She put out to
> get the ring, they say, and once she got the
> wedding and he's trapped, she feels no need to put
> out any more. This is especially true after she
> has a baybee. He still has his urges, she won't
> help him with that, so he is forced to look
> elsewhere. Some tell a bitter joke: "What food
> causes women to lose their libido forever?
> Wedding cake."
>
> 2. The wife uses sex as a weapon, but in general
> she isn't normally giving him any. One comment
> that recurs is that she puts out only when he
> makes a major purchase for her: a new vehicle,
> jewelry, etc., then it quickly ends. Same end
> result as No. 1.
>
> 3. The wife lets herself go, especially after
> having chyldren. Hard to get excited about
> someone who has put on 50 or more pounds—female or
> male. Her attitude is that he should love her as
> she is. Same end result as No. 1.

These things are also so true! A man I worked on a temp job with years ago told me how women just want a man to support them and the children. I was offended when he said ALL women want this and told him so. Years later, I can see how the man did feel this was so true with how so many women behave exactly as you said, K-man, in this post.

Wedding cake is the biggest libido killer. Women read Cosmo and other wimmin's rags on how to sexually fulfill a man and/or get the reluctant boyfriend to the altar. I have heard too damned many women say, "I can now get fat," after they get married. Duh...no wonder men look elsewhere. It is one thing if the weight comes on due to a medical condition that cannot be helped or if the man screamed for all of these baybees. However, women cannot let themselves go and then wonder why their husbands are suddenly "working late".

And...#2 is so true. Women often feel entitled to be gifted with the "best" when married. Look at Valentine's Day commercials! Another holiday I hate. Men are expected to buy diamond and gold jewelry to gift the women they are going to bed with, which sounds like prostitution. One male customer in a call center where I worked and was on duty one V-Day made the mistake of telling me that I must be so anxious to get home for my Valentine's Day tennis bracelet present. I told this fucker that I was not a whore and did not demand payment every February 14th just because I was with a man. I took a chance that the QA people were not on duty. No...I was not monitored that night. The caller was speechless...

Some (not all) of the coolest women I have known changed after saying, "I do."

It appears as though you think a man would never change after marriage.
Interesting.

Feh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It appears as though you think a man would never
> change after marriage.
> Interesting.

Oh gods...men change, too, which is why I would never do it again: the getting married part. Often, a man does take his wife for granted. If she works outside of home, her earnings into the household are not taken into account when the housework is divided. I can attest how some men will make the woman look like a freak if she does not want to deal with the families. And...some men also flake out on intimacy and feel that something is "wrong" or dangerous about a woman who wants sex even as she ages. Good point, Feh...but it seems the wives have more the entitlement issues. After all, we talk about that a bit with the SAHMs so we cannot suddenly say this does not exist...

"Good point, Feh...but it seems the wives have more the entitlement issues. After all, we talk about that a bit with the SAHMs so we cannot suddenly say this does not exist..."
I've never said it doesn't exist, but the general tone on here is that it's only women playing all nicey nice until they get that ring, then blammo! Evil sexless materialistic harpy with no warning whatsoever. Everyone can have entitlement issues. Just because it's not as blatent or common in the media doesn't mean it doesn't happen with men as well. A husband demanding sex 3 times a day, berating his wife for gaining a few pounds or forcing disagreeable sexual activities on her is just as horrible as as women who use sex to get things, or as a weapon, but that doesn't get talked about as much, because that stuff is usually kept private.

Not all wives are SAHM's, in fact very few are.

I've done my share of SAHM bashing, but this IS Bratfree, after all.

Has this board been overrun by wannabe politicians? The double- speak is making my head spin!

As Cf'ers, we profess to HATE it when people criticize our lifestyle. If we want other to respect our choices, we have to respect theirs, too. There's no one size fits all way to live, as most of us realize.

Why begrudge another person their right to choose how to live their lives? Some people choose to marry, others don't. How does that threaten somebody else's relationship, or lack thereof?

Come on. In this day and age, a man doesn't have to get married to get a little pussy, so what reason could a man possibly have for getting married if he doesn't want to be exclusive with one woman???

As far as a woman taking a man's money when he fucks her over...it's not about selling her pain or being a prostitute. It's about getting SOME sort of compensation for what happened to her and seeing him in SOME way not being able to flit off into the sunset all happy as a clam with no consequences for doing what he did to her. And being as he did it, he obviously doesn't care one lick about her so he's obviously not going to feel EMOTIONALLY or MORALLY bad about it, so money or violence are the only way for him not to get off scott-free. FUCK my ex and his little whore, who never saw one bad consequence from the end of our relationship except a bit of embarassment because I told our friends what was up and wasn't going to let him keep that shit a secret--and even that worked out fine for him because he could just tell further lies about how I was making it all up and how I'm psycho for being pissed about it and letting people know. If I could've made him hurt in some way, you can bet your ass I would've done it, that lying cheating sack of shit.

I'm sorry, I can't get down with the "prove the abuse" shit because you know what? Plenty of women don't because they know once they're home from the hospital and he's out of jail, he's going to make up for the trouble. In a big way. There are women scared that if they report it/leave, he'll kill them, or will take the kids, or they have nowhere to go/no money (after all, many abusive men also control the money, the friends/family, and many other things). It sucks that some men get fucked because women make shit up, but I'd rather that than women have to stay in an abusive relationship because they can't prove he did it.

I don't expect or want anything on V-Day, and in fact find it embarrassing--I don't need or want cutesy teddy bears, expensive ugly jewelry, dumb chocolate in heart-shaped boxes (though chocolate of any sort at any time is ALWAYS welcome! ) or flowers that will soon be dead. I most emphatically insisted to the boi last February that what I wanted from him was a valentine made by him. Period. Even if he did give me jewelry, I'd be far more likely to want something quirky that cost 20 bucks than gold and diamonds and shit (I would like to have a single piece of jewelry, such as a ring or earrings or necklace, from a significant other only because it would be a sort of keepsake gift I could wear all the time. And it likely would not be something expensive and mass-produced, but unique, interesting, and cheap; I prefer stuff with semi-precious stones and often silver, small stuff [in addition to personal preference I'm a small person and huge rings and bracelets would look dumb on me anyway] and often the artsy-type stuff you can find at art shows and such).

And of course, plenty of men let themselves go too, and they are the ones who spend the most time bitching about how their wife has gained two pounds (usually when they themselves have gained 30 pounds and some back hair!).

And, while plenty of SAHMs are just lazy and don't want to work, some are SAHMs because their husbands also want it that way. If that's the case and he wants a stay-at-home maid/nanny/cook, then I have no problem with him paying alimony later as it was partly by his request that she stayed out of the workforce and no longer has skills. Especially if he ended the marriage (because she likely agreed thinking she wouldn't be in a situation where she'd HAVE to support herself so it would be okay to acquiesce to the request).


sprogless try reversing it,
Goes the same way. If I were cheating on a guy, I'd expect him to be pissed and try to hurt me back too. But, being as I would never do such a thing, I don't worry about it; I just worry about someone else doing it to me.

1. Women dramatically reduce or entirely end sexual relations after marriage. She put out to get the ring, they say, and once she got the wedding and he's trapped, she feels no need to put out any more. This is especially true after she has a baybee. He still has his urges, she won't help him with that, so he is forced to look elsewhere. Some tell a bitter joke: "What food causes women to lose their libido forever? Wedding cake."

Y'know, it's funny, but my mom will swear up and down that it's the MAN who loses interest in sex after the marriage...

2. The wife uses sex as a weapon, but in general she isn't normally giving him any. One comment that recurs is that she puts out only when he makes a major purchase for her: a new vehicle, jewelry, etc., then it quickly ends. Same end result as No. 1.

Of course, this is opposed to men who only do or say nice things for/to their wives when they've done something wrong, then when they get over feeling guilty, it quickly ends...it's just that the "currency" used there is affection rather than sex.

Let me make it clear that a man with a good wife has no business in my book playing around
A man with a bad wife (or a woman with a bad husband. Or a woman or man with a bad SO of the same sex) has no business still being in that relationship. Cheating is not the answer.

exactly kat, why should a man be punished in a divorce, if she was the one cheating. why doesnt the woman pay alimony to the man. but thats so rare..

i think men are complaining that, if he didnt cheat, he didnt do anything bad, why should he pay, if she wants out because she is bored, and she initiates it.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

mercurior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> exactly kat, why should a man be punished in a
> divorce, if she was the one cheating. why doesnt
> the woman pay alimony to the man. but thats so
> rare..
>
> i think men are complaining that, if he didnt
> cheat, he didnt do anything bad, why should he
> pay, if she wants out because she is bored, and
> she initiates it.

That is the problem. Women file more for divorce because they are "bored" or "unfulfilled". Divorce is now no-fault but the man STILL has to pay Cunt Support aka "alimony" to the woman. NO ONE should get alimony. "Get a fucking job," is what I wish judges would say to these wannabe-prostitutes. Even if there is sexual infidelity, there should not be a monetary penalty. We are all adults for god's sake!

K2144, why do you call "the other woman" a whore or a slut? As bad as your ex's behaviour was, the other woman had no responsibility to you. I hate to say it but under governmental standards, people who are living together are still viewed as "single". The live-ins cannot file taxes like a married person. I've worked with fellows who lived with women and they said they could do what they like as they are still single. That is a nasty little secret that women are not aware of, which I think is awful. Sadly, the women act like they are married. Having sex does not make a person a "slut". If the woman was your friend, I understand that feels very different as she would have betrayed your friendship. All she was was a woman having sex with a guy who was not married.

Even if a couple isn't married, they may still agree on monogamy or agree on an open relationship. If a couple agrees on monogamy, it's entirely reasonable for both parties in that relationship to expect monogamous behavior. I would think that would be obvious. The health consiquences are still the same for the remaining monogamous partner who is being cheated on, and the emotional pain is just as bad.

Being married is obviously not a safety net when it comes to monogamy, but not being married doesn't make a person in a committed relationship "fair game" for being hit on, seduced or whatever nonsense people engage in to get another in bed. People can be in decades long committed relationships without ever involving themselves in the institution of marriage, and to consider those relationships as something less worthy of respect than marriage is simply incorrect.

I feel that if people would actually think for themselves once in a while, instead of just following the crowd, there might indeed be less divorce, heart break and other assorted misery. Sure, the norm is for a man and a woman to get married in their 20's, buy a house, spoot out some kids and then one or both has an affair and then there is an ugly divorce. Now, what if this couple had the balls to say "Hey, we love each other, but like to have sex with other people as well. Let's try having a relationship together that also involves safe sexual relations with other people. It's not what everyone does, but it might work for us." From the people I know who've done this, as long as both parties are in agreement, there generally isn't a problem with that sort of activity, beyond the problems society has with it. However, it's all a matter of knowing yourself, and being able to be honest with your partners, which seems to be beyond the scope of most people.

The odd thing that several married (male) friends have told me is that a wedding ring is like a magnet for some women. It happened to my brother after he got married, and it shook him. He had loads of propositions from women after his marriage (and he emphatically was not interested in these other women). He still scratches his head about that.

It's baffling why anyone would deliberately seek out someone who was already married, except to create trouble. It seems to work both ways, as I've seen ads for websites that claim to have married women looking for dates. Unbelieveable.

"The odd thing that several married (male) friends have told me is that a wedding ring is like a magnet for some women. It happened to my brother after he got married, and it shook him."

I've heard of that before, and with married women as well. I just don't get it. Are these folks thinking, "You know what I want from a relationship? Drama and baggage! I hope there are some kids and guns to add to the excitement!" Hell, maybe they are, asshats seem to be the majority now days. Me? I prefer to keep the drama to a minimum.

Am, this girl WAS a slut. She had quite the reputation (good proof of that is that after my ex and I split up, one of my other friends asked someone he knows about her--simply asked this guy if he knew her--because my friend didn't know her, and the person he talked to automatically assumed my friend was looking for sex with her), and I know of at least one guy she cheated on her former boyfriend with because I heard him bragging about it.

In addition, she certainly did have a responsibility to me--she was my friend. That is, "friend." And I'm sorry, but I think any human being has a responsibility to anybody to not do something like that to them, whether they know them or not. And in moving in on my ex, possibly poisoning his mind about me, and helping him concoct and spread lies about me, she certainly is as much at fault as he was.

he odd thing that several married (male) friends have told me is that a wedding ring is like a magnet for some women.
At the boi's former job, there was this chick that kept hitting on him. She'd keep asking him what he was "doing this weekend" and he'd always answer pointedly, "hanging out with my girlfriend" and she'd say "oh" but the next day she'd be back at him again.

I have absolutely no respect for people who have no respect for others' relationships.

I do think it’s wrong for a person to go after someone who’s in a relationship, but it’s ultimately up to the person who’s actually in the relationship to respect his/her partner enough to not cheat. While the third-party person is a total jerk who most certainly deserves a swift kick to the rump, the person who got screwed over should realize that they’ve actually been done a favor, because they’ve gotten to see their ex-partner’s true scumbag colors because of that jerk. So you get the lying, cheating putz out of your life, and the 3rd-party trash gets him/her in theirs – instant karma.

K12144 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Am, this girl WAS a slut. She had quite the
> reputation (good proof of that is that after my ex
> and I split up, one of my other friends asked
> someone he knows about her--simply asked this guy
> if he knew her--because my friend didn't know her,
> and the person he talked to automatically assumed
> my friend was looking for sex with her), and I
> know of at least one guy she cheated on her former
> boyfriend with because I heard him bragging about
> it.

A lot of guys will lie about a woman's "reputation" to get back at her if she denied him sex...or to look good among the guys. I would wonder about the bragging fellow. Was he any better...or what it okay for him because he is male?

> In addition, she certainly did have a
> responsibility to me--she was my friend. That is,
> "friend." And I'm sorry, but I think any human
> being has a responsibility to anybody to not do
> something like that to them, whether they know
> them or not. And in moving in on my ex, possibly
> poisoning his mind about me, and helping him
> concoct and spread lies about me, she certainly is
> as much at fault as he was.

That alone answered my question. The woman WAS your friend...so SHE had a responsibility to behave better towards you and NOT go after your mate. Loyalty among friends should come before any man! I sure as hell would not even go after a friend's former boyfriend/husband even after they had long split up. I am really funny about that...

k-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The odd thing that several married (male) friends
> have told me is that a wedding ring is like a
> magnet for some women. It happened to my brother
> after he got married, and it shook him. He had
> loads of propositions from women after his
> marriage (and he emphatically was not interested
> in these other women). He still scratches his
> head about that.
>
> It's baffling why anyone would deliberately seek
> out someone who was already married, except to
> create trouble. It seems to work both ways, as
> I've seen ads for websites that claim to have
> married women looking for dates. Unbelieveable.


I believe it is the "challenge". In that case, going after a committed person is mean just because the woman wants to see if she can get the guy to not think of his wife. It is a game. There are no feelings or anything of that nature but possibly messing up someone else's life for "fun".