Keeping secrets from lovers

I want to get some input here from CF guys and gals.

One my my friends got fixed about 3 years ago, maybe a little more. He never told his girlfriend. He is still with this same girl (she is a wanna breeder as far as I'm concerned). They are having problems, buy now she knows he's sterile but does not know why. Should he tell her now?

Should he have told her right away he was fixed? When is it appropriate to come out with this info and tell the other?

We live in a society where we got to protect ourselves. I do not know what to tell my friend, but I tend to side with him. I do not think he knew that she was going to be so strong towards breeding. He thought she is a fence sitter, not a wanna breeder. I knew this chick for 4 years or so, she never said she was gonna breed. My friend did not know either. Anyways, what's the CF view on this?

I don't think secrets like this should be kept--after all, either she'll find out eventually or she'll leave him for a guy who wants kids anyway. I think general consensus in the CF community is usually that "if you want kids and your SO doesn't, might as well end it now because it's not like there's a compromise for this situation."

He might as well tell her now before he wastes any more time with her.

He needs to watch out. She could see someone on the side and get preggers, but then put his name on the birth certificate and identify him as the father. By the time he gets it straightened out, the child support people will have made his life a living hell.

And if he doesn't get it straightened out in time (as there are time limits for contesting paternity before everything becomes permanent), he's on the hook for 18 years or more. The only thing in his favor is that she already knows he's sterile, which would deter her from oopsing him with someone else's baby. But if she's got baby rabies enough and thinks he's a good enough provider...

Some of the men's forums have discussed scenarios like this. It's more common than most realize.

Its a tough one, but I say you need to lay your cards down early on. And by that, I don't mean bring it up in conversation on the first date, but certainly when the topic of having children comes up. Being 'fixed' is a fairly serious thing (for both men and women), as it can determine what kind of relationship you end up in, depending on the other person, of course. If you declaire it upfront, at least the other person knows how you really feel. Letting them them think that they are sterile or otherwise have problems isn't fair to them, and would only make them even more angry when the truth eventually comes out (and it will).
As K12144 said, its one of those things that can make or break the deal (as far as relationship goes), so you might as well name it up front and save both yourselves possible grief later on.

Thank you all the the input. I'll be talking to both of those sometime this weekend. I now have a few solid opinions to rely on. It's a funny thing, I was never married so I never had to deal with headaches. Go figure, now I deal with someone else's problems. But hey, they are better having than my own. Same as kids I suppose.

Although I have zero problem with a man or woman getting sterilized or taking contraception on the sly if either has a mate who pressing for those babies so there is self-preservation, it is best to be upfront about this issue in the beginning. My first instinct was, "Hell no...the lady does not need to know this man's business!" However, K-Man brought out a good point how the woman can get pregnant on the side.

Many men will believe the vasectomy failed. Others are smart and get tested even if it incurs the wrath of the Almighty Moo-to-Be, which has caused some divorces. Even if the child proves to be of another man, the snipped fellow can be on the hook to support the nasty sprog as the courts claim it is "in the best interest of the child" (gag me...) if the ex-husband/boyfriend has raised the thing as his own. Feminism if this era is nothing more than entitlement mentality. Hell...we cannot even get women to fight for abortion rights anymore!

As a "snipped" woman, I always made that clear to anyone I was involved with as there are also many men who are wanna-breeds. My soon-to-be ex even suggested adoption when I told him that I was not going to be any man's moo! I told the fucker that I sure as hell was not going to take in kids if I did not want to shit out my own!

Your friend needs to be very honest. I have been told I tend to lay out my cards on the table too soon. Better that than to let others believe the bullshit they want to believe...:smoke ***Also...many women are sneaky little cunts who will get pregnant once there are problems i the relationship to keep the guy anchored to her. Tell your friend to remember that...as the gal may be fucking around for revenge.***

As much as I despise breeders, especially oopsers: I say he is wasting her time and leading her on. And that is NOT OK. It's not like women have all the time in the world to have sprogs if they want them. Why the fuck would he want to be with that woman anyway? Oh, right - she must be great in bed. No other reason.

I agree with Medusa. It’s not OK to allow the person to believe that the future is open for kids. That is what your male friend is doing. “Well, she never said she wanted breed,” is not exactly an astute observation. Here is my outlook: Unless the person directly states, “I do/do not want to have kids,” I assume said person wants to have kids. I do not assume a person is a fencesitter because they avoid talking about the subject. Most people want kids, plain and simple. Do a lot of people not want them and delude themselves into the script? Of course, but most people will say they want to have them.

Gee, I wonder why they are having problems? Is it because he finally told her he was ‘sterile’? If they started having problems before this news, she likely picked up on his behavior that he is keeping something from her. I think it’s best to talk about this stuff early on. I would not do it on a first or second date because I think that gets in the way. But he should have mentioned his desire not to have kids/the snip after a few dates. K-man makes a great point. He shouldn’t continue with her without telling her the truth. Say she gets pregnant. How is he going to feel knowing she screwed around on him? Staying in the relationship without telling her could ruin his life.

Sterile by the snip, or whatever means, is sterile. There isn't really any need for her to know exactly how or why he isn't able to procreate.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

I agree to a point, Feh. He doesn't have to say he got the snip, but he needs to say: "I am sterile AND I do not want kids, ever." Telling the girlfriend he doesn't want kids by saying he is sterile is skirting the issue.

Nour Wrote:
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> I agree to a point, Feh. He doesn't have to say he
> got the snip, but he needs to say: "I am sterile
> AND I do not want kids, ever." Telling the
> girlfriend he doesn't want kids by saying he is
> sterile is skirting the issue.


Not only that, but if he says he is sterile, she will be dragging him to fertility doctors and he'll have to admit it then.

She should have been told about this the first time she brought up children with him, to give her time to find someone who wants children.

Nour Wrote:
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> “Well, she never said she wanted breed,” is not
> exactly an astute observation. Here is my outlook:
> Unless the person directly states, “I do/do not
> want to have kids,” I assume said person wants to
> have kids. I do not assume a person is a
> fencesitter because they avoid talking about the
> subject. Most people want kids, plain and simple.
> Do a lot of people not want them and delude
> themselves into the script? Of course, but most
> people will say they want to have them.


Nour, I have to disagree here. People's standards differ. Assuming that most people want kids is a personal experience and not necessarily the way it is. Standard vary from place to place, person to person. I find nothing unusual or abnormal about not having kids. As far as most goes, when it comes to it, majority of parents told me that their kids were not planned. Some said, if they had a choice, they would not have done it.


> Gee, I wonder why they are having problems? Is it
> because he finally told her he was ‘sterile’? If
> they started having problems before this news, she
> likely picked up on his behavior that he is
> keeping something from her. I think it’s best to
> talk about this stuff early on. I would not do it
> on a first or second date because I think that
> gets in the way. But he should have mentioned his
> desire not to have kids/the snip after a few
> dates.

I think the problems may have originated because of lack of trust. She told him she was on birth control, but later came out and said she was not. At this time, I think, this girl has been swayed by family and breeder friends. I see your point about him not telling everything, but what about the girl who did not tell him about the fact that she stopped taking birth control? I still have to figure that one out.

Techie, I agree that not having kids is perfectly fine and normal, needless to say. Here's where I disagree: The majority of people across the country want kids. We call it the "LifeScript" on this board for a reason. Because a lot of people follow what is written by society.

According to a recent Glamour mag poll, 9 out of 10 women said they wanted children. That's 90 percent. Sounds like a majority to me. Attitudes might vary between Paris, France; Biloxi, Miss., and San Francisco, Calif. OK. Great.

I don't get why a lot of people think that no discussion of kids means the person may not want kids. WTF? This makes no sense to me. I thought this way when I was much much younger. Too many people in relationships skirt this issue, and it can cause a lot of heartache. I don't play this as a 30-something. What to find out what the deal is? Talk about it. It sounds like your friend should have broached the subject a lot sooner (whether he mentioned the snip or not, at this point it ain't even that important).

**As far as most goes, when it comes to it, majority of parents told me that their kids were not planned. Some said, if they had a choice, they would not have done it.**

But that's the thing, Techie, they had a choice all along! These people are idiots. If you get raped, you might get pregnant. If you are a poor abused girl living in a rural area with a boatload of breeders, you may not have a choice. But I'm guessing the parents you are talking to aren't in that situation. Someone who doesn't want to get an abortion doesn't have to be a parent. "IF they had a choice?" Wow.
No. They did not have the courage to be who they wanted to be. They were weak. They caved. Plain and simple.

As far as the young lady trying to oops him, that is despicable. How someone could fathom marriage with someone like that is beyond me.

Yep, that's a good point, Childree Chicago Lawyer, my friend. Tell your wannabreeder fiancée that you're sterile, and she'll try to set out to prove you wrong. Yikes!

The way I see it, if you have to use birth control in secret because you don't trust the person you're with, you shouldn't be with them.

Likewise for if you feel you have to lie about being sterilized or about your desire not to have kids.

I make it clear early on...not only by saying so, but by open actions and comments that get the message across. Anyone with a problem with that is not for me.

As we all seem to agree, the right thing to do is to state our views about such things early on, but as a CF man I feel this more often than not leads to a quick end to a relationship (potential or existing).

Women are biologically driven to have children, and of course there are exceptions. Its just trying to find those exceptions seems nigh-on impossible sometimes. If you are a guy who states early-on that you don't want kids (when the conversation heads that way), somtimes you are seen as a cold, heartless prick. (Oh, and selfish, but that of course goes without saying when CF people are involved, right?) Or you get the "You'll change your mind someday" speech. Or get the 20-Questions as to why, in the hopes they might be able to convert you over to their way of thinking or something.

I know I've fucked things up in the past by asking the mood-killing critical questions at the wrong time (ie, Are you on birth control? What if you get pregnant? Would you get an abortion?). Yeah, really romantic, isn't it? Sounds more like an interrogation. By asking these, I'm not trying to shirk my responsibilites, but lets face it, the only contraception available to men is really the condom - and if it breaks, then what? You're pretty much at the mercy of the woman. You would want to be sure your partner also feels the same way about unplanned pregnancy. I feel these questions are VERY important, but I can never get the timing right. I also feel this lack of trust has affected my performance, if you know what I mean. I want to be with someone who is definately CF. I'd gladly get snipped if I could get it done without the "too young/no kids" reason for denial, which is difficult in a country that gives you a $4000 baby bonus (which is going up next year).

Does anyone here have any advice on such things? It would all be SO much easier men and women could just fucking TALK about shit like this without any emotions getting involved. This is why I haven't dated for a few months, it is just so much fucking hassle and sometimes seems to be more trouble than its worth.

Nour Wrote:
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> According to a recent Glamour mag poll, 9 out of
> 10 women said they wanted children. That's 90
> percent. Sounds like a majority to me. Attitudes
> might vary between Paris, France; Biloxi, Miss.,
> and San Francisco, Calif. OK. Great.

I understand your research, but the source is not the one I trust. Can you ask the milk industry if milk is good for you?
If I stood in a lady's restroom and asked all of the visitors if they had a penis, most if not all, would say no. Glamour magazine is a breeder oriented publication. They will get the answers they want to benefit them. So they will ask breeders if they want kids. You know what the answer is going to be.

> **As far as most goes, when it comes to it,
> majority of parents told me that their kids were
> not planned. Some said, if they had a choice, they
> would not have done it.**
>
> But that's the thing, Techie, they had a choice
> all along! These people are idiots. If you get
> raped, you might get pregnant. If you are a poor
> abused girl living in a rural area with a boatload
> of breeders, you may not have a choice. But I'm
> guessing the parents you are talking to aren't in
> that situation. Someone who doesn't want to get an
> abortion doesn't have to be a parent. "IF they had
> a choice?" Wow.
> No. They did not have the courage to be who they
> wanted to be. They were weak. They caved. Plain
> and simple.

Yes, yes, yes. They were too stupid to use birth control, they did got pressured by the partner, some got oopsed. But majority of people I know were not ready to be parents. They just got knocked up. They were shitting their pants. They just could not get an abortion. So now, they are screwed.
>
> As far as the young lady trying to oops him, that
> is despicable. How someone could fathom marriage
> with someone like that is beyond me.

This happens a lot more than you think. It is just not many people will admit it. Our pro-natal media is OK with it. Glamour magazine is promoting it (very likely). That is why I am not married.

Non-PoliticallyCorrect Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I know I've fucked things up in the past by asking
> the mood-killing critical questions at the wrong
> time (ie, Are you on birth control? What if you
> get pregnant? Would you get an abortion?). Yeah,
> really romantic, isn't it? Sounds more like an
> interrogation. By asking these, I'm not trying to
> shirk my responsibilites, but lets face it, the
> only contraception available to men is really the
> condom - and if it breaks, then what? You're
> pretty much at the mercy of the woman. You would
> want to be sure your partner also feels the same
> way about unplanned pregnancy. I feel these
> questions are VERY important, but I can never get
> the timing right. I also feel this lack of trust
> has affected my performance, if you know what I
> mean. I want to be with someone who is definately
> CF. I'd gladly get snipped if I could get it done
> without the "too young/no kids" reason for denial,
> which is difficult in a country that gives you a
> $4000 baby bonus (which is going up next year).

Non-PC, be glad the "mood" was broken when you asked those questions. More men should be pro-active rather than allow their hormones to make a decision that will possibly lead to a pregnancy and a refusal to abort once the woman suddenly becomes "pro-life" just to trap a man into marriage. The women who got offended...oh well, too fucking bad! Don't worry about the timing of your questions but be glad you have the sense to ask. If the cunts got mad...again, too fucking bad...it is their problem if they did not want to have sex...not yours!

Non-PoliticallyCorrect Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As we all seem to agree, the right thing to do is
> to state our views about such things early on, but
> as a CF man I feel this more often than not leads
> to a quick end to a relationship (potential or
> existing).
>
> Women are biologically driven to have children,
> and of course there are exceptions. Its just
> trying to find those exceptions seems nigh-on
> impossible sometimes. If you are a guy who states
> early-on that you don't want kids (when the
> conversation heads that way), somtimes you are
> seen as a cold, heartless prick. (Oh, and selfish,
> but that of course goes without saying when CF
> people are involved, right?) Or you get the
> "You'll change your mind someday" speech. Or get
> the 20-Questions as to why, in the hopes they
> might be able to convert you over to their way of
> thinking or something.
>
> I know I've fucked things up in the past by asking
> the mood-killing critical questions at the wrong
> time (ie, Are you on birth control? What if you
> get pregnant? Would you get an abortion?). Yeah,
> really romantic, isn't it? Sounds more like an
> interrogation. By asking these, I'm not trying to
> shirk my responsibilites, but lets face it, the
> only contraception available to men is really the
> condom - and if it breaks, then what? You're
> pretty much at the mercy of the woman. You would
> want to be sure your partner also feels the same
> way about unplanned pregnancy. I feel these
> questions are VERY important, but I can never get
> the timing right. I also feel this lack of trust
> has affected my performance, if you know what I
> mean. I want to be with someone who is definately
> CF. I'd gladly get snipped if I could get it done
> without the "too young/no kids" reason for denial,
> which is difficult in a country that gives you a
> $4000 baby bonus (which is going up next year).
>
> Does anyone here have any advice on such things?
> It would all be SO much easier men and women could
> just fucking TALK about shit like this without any
> emotions getting involved. This is why I haven't
> dated for a few months, it is just so much fucking
> hassle and sometimes seems to be more trouble than
> its worth.

I assume you are dating younger women. That may be the problem. Once you and your dates hit 40's, it gets better. In fact, I noticed, they find it cool if you are CF by choice.

Rusky, you assume correctly. I am only 30 myself, and this year have dated women aged from 23 to 42 (quite a large age range, I know - very long story). I find the attitudes mentioned in my previous post are actually more prevelant in the older women (ie, the ones who probably think that time is running out).

Anyway, I feel I've hit the grand old age where I really need to keep my wits about me as far as potential partners go. I've gotta be aware of the women who are being pressured into settling down by their parents and friends. Not to mention, just about all my friends are married, some with kids already - some of whom are trying to set me up with their single friends. They're all aware of my CF status (I have ranted enough about it), but I'm sure they all think its part of the same single-guy bullshit talk that they all used to go on with themselves before they "saw the light" as it were. "One day it'll be you!", they all say - now I just laugh politely instead of launching into a rant (its a lot easier this way).

Can any of you other CFers relate to this? Any advice? Do I just keep going as usual and finding out by asking the crucial questions (and more often than not, face rejection) or is there a particular method or strategy I should look at?

He should just tell her that he was snipped and be done with it. A guy who is snipped and banging a rabid wannabreed is as bad as an oopsing rabid wannamoo. If they split, they can blame it only on themselves. He was being a deceitful liar, and she was plotting to oops him. Sounds like those two probably deserve each other.

Non-politically correct wrote:

Rusky, you assume correctly. I am only 30 myself, and this year have dated women aged from 23 to 42 (quite a large age range, I know - very long story). I find the attitudes mentioned in my previous post are actually more prevelant in the older women (ie, the ones who probably think that time is running out).

Anyway, I feel I've hit the grand old age where I really need to keep my wits about me as far as potential partners go. I've gotta be aware of the women who are being pressured into settling down by their parents and friends. Not to mention, just about all my friends are married, some with kids already - some of whom are trying to set me up with their single friends. They're all aware of my CF status (I have ranted enough about it), but I'm sure they all think its part of the same single-guy bullshit talk that they all used to go on with themselves before they "saw the light" as it were. "One day it'll be you!", they all say - now I just laugh politely instead of launching into a rant (its a lot easier this way).

Can any of you other CFers relate to this? Any advice? Do I just keep going as usual and finding out by asking the crucial questions (and more often than not, face rejection) or is there a particular method or strategy I should look at?


Dude, I now exactly where you stand. People think you are just going to breed once you find the "right girl". That is the high sperm pressure thinking of a dude who has not been laid by a hot chick (I mean really hot chick). Once this desperate dude comes across this hottie, he goes crazy, and if she gives it to him (punani), it's like drugs to an addict. Yeah, he found a right girl all right. That fool starts getting laid, looses his mind, starts to ride bareback (you know what I mean), and that, my dear friends, is how he gets in trouble. Then he asks us "how did I get into this?" In other cases he loves getting it so much that the thought of ever stopping is devastating to him. That putane starts asking to things like marriage, house, kyds. In order to keep getting it (the young hot shaved snatch) he complies. Yeah, he pays dearly.

The best advice that I can give you is this. You are young. Women know how to control a young guy. In fact, they have perfected it and have not failed. You married friends may have been laid but not good enough. They had to pay for their pie, dearly (marriage does cost you a lot).

Do not, ever, fall for married w/kids friends bull shit. Their sperm pressure is above record level, they got laid at first, but they ain't getting any now. Wet pussy to them is like a fresh burger to a dog. They think with their cocks all the way. And no, they ain't allowed to stray, hell no. And no, they ain't getting any from momma either. Do not ask them what a blow job feels like - they may get jealous.

Boss, I do not know if you are fixed or not, but I would recommend you get fixed by an experienced urologist who specializes in No-Scalpel Vasectomy. (Check out sites like www.AzUrology.com for more info) Get a doc who does at least a few a week. Wait out your 4 months. Get tested for sterility. Keep that slip, that says you are sterile. After that, ALWAYS use a condom. DO NOT tell anyone you have been clipped. It sounds to me you are surrounded by breeders. Do not, again, buy into their shit. Go out and start scoring. Chances of a good vasectomy failing are slim. Chances of vasectomy and condom failing together at the same time while the woman you are pumping is in that "perfect time" are almost non-existent. Your self-confidence will be up, you will be relaxed, best of all, you are not going to be giving shit. You will have friends, because you will be happy. People like happy people. All the women will want to be your friends, because you will not be freaking out.

Do not talk about, or promise your dates anything. Just have fun. Do not let these breeder pleasers on CF boards tell you it's wrong. Be a breeder teaser, not a pleaser. Do not listen to crap like "she only has so much time". She can walk away anytime. If you have a kid, you are fucked. Trust me. The fact that you do not have kids is a very very very desired quality by most women. No one, no one wants the kid luggage in a relationship. Breeders want to sprog so that you are off the desired list. Being CF is great. It is ALWAYS reversible (if you are scared). If your heart ever needs to, go live with a single mom (do not marry her, do not ever, ever reverse your vasectomy) - there are plenty of them on the market, and boy, they will blow job you to heavens just to have you, the CF guy with no luggage. Yeah!

I have been in a CF dating scene for over 20 years. You have to get to know women. Be nice to them, get to know their friends, you later WILL find women with no luggage. They will want you for the same reason you want them. It is a true, proven many times fact, that you, the CF guys is worth more than gold. And remember, do not be a looser. Have a job, save, invest, collect returns, play lottery (just do not spend a lot on that), keep your place clean and modern. Dress nice. Read, be funny, be easy going. Be creative. Have women friends. You are the diamond, you are the gold. You childed buddies have no chance against you. You have very little competition for that matter.

Rusky,

LOL - you are awesome! Ever thought about writing an advice book?

CFBitchfromLA Wrote:
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> He should just tell her that he was snipped and be
> done with it. A guy who is snipped and banging a
> rabid wannabreed is as bad as an oopsing rabid
> wannamoo. If they split, they can blame it only
> on themselves. He was being a deceitful liar, and
> she was plotting to oops him. Sounds like those
> two probably deserve each other.

Amen. What is he doing living with her anyways? If he was promising her stuff, especially breeder stuff, she could do something to get back at him. However, if she flipped on the issue ( "I used to be CF bull") and then tried to oops him, she needs to go away, like today, like right now and leave the dude alone. She can go on with her crap like nothing happened. She can change from CF to moo-hood any time. Oopsing the guy was not cool. It sounds to me like dude was fixed by a good doctor - obviously he had no scars - wanna breed did not see it - Ha-ha-ha!

Medusa Wrote:
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> As much as I despise breeders, especially oopsers:
> I say he is wasting her time and leading her on.

If she wants sprogs, she needs to go find a gangsta or a band boy.

> And that is NOT OK. It's not like women have all
> the time in the world to have sprogs if they want
> them.

That sound like a breeder pleaser statement. Some breeders want sprogs secretly. So they scope out a sucker to target. If I sensed it, I'd stay the hell away from it. But not all men do. This dude at least has protected himself and her too, by the way. Why would she want to sprog with someone who will not be around?

>Why the fuck would he want to be with that
> woman anyway? Oh, right - she must be great in
> bed. No other reason.

Why is she coming back to him? It's hard to believe, but not all men just want pussy. He could be a good mate, she could be a good mate. They may get along on everything but breeding. When it comes whether to breed or not to breed, I feel that not breeding is much less evil and is a wiser choice. If couple does not breed, it is ALWAYS reversible. They later could adopt, he could re-marry, she could re-marry. They may have siblings who have kids. Not breeding has outlets. Breeding does not. One a woman is pregnant, she is screwed. There is no way out once the kid is born. Adoption is not a relief. It can and most likely will haunt her.
She could not be clear on things, he could not be clear on things. I do not know. But I support CF - all the way. We got less rights than any dumb breeder.