Keeping secrets from lovers

bell_flower Wrote:
> 3. This is why I preach it loud and proud:
> Sterilization before marriage. Not PC, if you are
> 30 and you can't find a doctor to give you a
> vasetcomy, you just haven't found the right
> doctor. It's much easier for a man. I had to
> fight like Hell at AGE 36 to get my tubal
> ligation, but I've known men who've had them, no
> questions asked, at age 27.
>

Could you tell me, what is PC?

I was referring to the poster named "Non-Politically Correct." For some reason I thought he said he was 30 and the tried to get a vasectomy. I think I got my posters or threads mixed up.

But it's still what I tell my male friends.

bell_flower: You are correct. I am (still ) single and 30 and am thinking about getting the big V done.

However, like I mentioned, the Australian govermnent pays you $4000 for every baby delivered, and there are rumours that it will go up next year. A few years ago when it was raised from $3000 to $4000, there were reports of women delaying C-sections or taking drugs to stave off a natural birth until the change-over date - never mind what harm it could do to the child, they wanted the extra $1000!!!

The cheque is made out to only the mother, whether she is married or not, so this scheme/system is being abused quite a bit by the bogans (Aussie slang for "white trash") and 3rd world immigrants/refugees who shit out kids just to collect the $4000 which invariably gets mostly spent on shit like plasma TVs, smokes and booze, because these useless fucks know damn well that Centrelink (Australian Government department of welfare) will always bail them out and give them more 'assistance' (ie, money). Its a friggin' disgrace.

Anyway, back to my original point... If my govt will dangle a $4000 carrot in front of me to have a kid because there is an 'ageing population', then I think it would be quite difficult for a young, single guy like me who doesn't have kids to get the big V done without going through a whole lot of bullshit/counselling/bingoes (because SURELY there must be something wrong with me, right?). Sure as shit the public health care wouldn't pay for this either, but they DO (of course) subsidise a few cycles of IVF for couples trying to conceive (whether they can actually afford a child or not, let alone the IVF if they had to pay for it out of their own pocket).

Non-PoliticallyCorrect Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bell_flower: You are correct. I am (still )
> single and 30 and am thinking about getting the
> big V done.
>
> However, like I mentioned, the Australian
> govermnent pays you $4000 for every baby
> delivered, and there are rumours that it will go
> up next year. A few years ago when it was raised
> from $3000 to $4000, there were reports of women
> delaying C-sections or taking drugs to stave off a
> natural birth until the change-over date - never
> mind what harm it could do to the child, they
> wanted the extra $1000!!!
>
> The cheque is made out to only the mother, whether
> she is married or not, so this scheme/system is
> being abused quite a bit by the bogans (Aussie
> slang for "white trash") and 3rd world
> immigrants/refugees who shit out kids just to
> collect the $4000 which invariably gets mostly
> spent on shit like plasma TVs, smokes and booze,
> because these useless fucks know damn well that
> Centrelink (Australian Government department of
> welfare) will always bail them out and give them
> more 'assistance' (ie, money). Its a friggin'
> disgrace.
>
> Anyway, back to my original point... If my govt
> will dangle a $4000 carrot in front of me to have
> a kid because there is an 'ageing population',
> then I think it would be quite difficult for a
> young, single guy like me who doesn't have kids to
> get the big V done without going through a whole
> lot of bullshit/counselling/bingoes (because
> SURELY there must be something wrong with me,
> right?). Sure as shit the public health care
> wouldn't pay for this either, but they DO (of
> course) subsidise a few cycles of IVF for couples
> trying to conceive (whether they can actually
> afford a child or not, let alone the IVF if they
> had to pay for it out of their own pocket).


They do the same crap here in Russia. Every Middle Eastern family wants to take advantage of it. White drunk women go ahead and have the babie, collect the money, wait a week, then go drop the baby off at the infant shelter. If the kid is not messed up because it came out of drunken moo, westerners will adopt it. Otherwise it will be miserable as long as it lives.

As far as vasectomy goes, they are free here. Chinese born doctors are awesome at doing them. They even do them w/out scalpel. They give no hassle about it if a dude is young (they will do it down to 18 - here in Russia it's the legal marriage age). No questions asked. Government pays for Vasectomy here. I know many westerners do not know Chinese too well, but those China boys and girls know what overpopulation is and take it seriously. They brought some of it (population control) to Russia and it's a good thing.

Non PC,

Here is my advice to you - I don't know if this is even possible, if Planned Parenthood here in the U.S. requires any kind of proof of citizenship (I doubt it). However, it might be worth a try. The Australian dollar is about to hit parity with the U.S. dollar (as our economy goes down the toilet), so this might be a good chance to cash in on a so-called medical vacation of sorts. If you can afford it money- and time-wise, come to the U.S. and go to a Planned Parenthood clinic and get snipped. Have a nice little "vacation", go back to Australia, and get confirmed in a few months on your sterility. They won't bug you here about getting sterilized if you're a guy, especially if you're single. A vasectomy at PP is about $500.
Just an idea.

If Planned Parenthood is cool with sterilizing the young and childfree, it makes me wonder about at least some of the people who claimed their doctors wouldn't perform a vasectomy or tubal ligation. Did those people actually approach PP after their regular doctors said no? I'd bet that many did not and could have, though obviously PP isn't everywhere.

Planned Parenthood will gladly do vasectomies, but they still treat women like walking wombs. Maybe it depends on where you live, but where I live they don't even touch woman's sterilization at PP. It is all about dispensing pills and performing fetus removals. Also, I think that to some people there is a stigma to going to PP, as it is often seen as a place where baby mommas go to get their government-paid abortions.

Ketchup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Non PC,
>
> Here is my advice to you - I don't know if this is
> even possible, if Planned Parenthood here in the
> U.S. requires any kind of proof of citizenship (I
> doubt it). However, it might be worth a try. The
> Australian dollar is about to hit parity with the
> U.S. dollar (as our economy goes down the toilet),
> so this might be a good chance to cash in on a
> so-called medical vacation of sorts. If you can
> afford it money- and time-wise, come to the U.S.
> and go to a Planned Parenthood clinic and get
> snipped. Have a nice little "vacation", go back to
> Australia, and get confirmed in a few months on
> your sterility. They won't bug you here about
> getting sterilized if you're a guy, especially if
> you're single. A vasectomy at PP is about $500.
> Just an idea.

As far as I know, in the USA, if you are paying cash, no proof of any kind is needed. In fact, no identification is required. I do not know about Planed Parenthood, but a private doctor of Urology charges about $850 in US dollars. They do offer cash discounts. Private doctor does not care where you are from, as long as you are paying them and not stifling them out of payment.

There will be 2 appointments. First is a consultation, second is actual surgery. After the consultation you will know what to do and when. If you can help it, get a no-scalpel vasectomy. It hurts less and heals quicker. It is also just as reliable. Private message to me and I will give you a link to a good clinic.

bell_flower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm coming to this thread late, but here is my
> take on it:
>
> 1. I've had lots of dates in my life (now
> married) and my general rule is that for the first
> couple of months, I wasn't really forthcoming with
> all the DETAILS of my CF status. Now, I'm a slow
> dater. I don't believe in the three date rule,
> where you have three dates with someone, then
> sleep with them. I'm no prude, but to me the
> sexual act is very intimate. For a lot of reasons
> (health is just one) you'd better know someone
> really well before you boink them.

I'm a little different. I tell a man of my being childfree-by-choice right away. That way, he can go running if he is looking to make a woman into a moo. I am a "fast dater". My idea is to get certain things out of the way. If it does not work in that area, *I* can get out ASAP since many men will play the "kind & sincere" role until they are intimate with a woman....and then...whammo...what a difference!

> Now, there are people who would say that my being
> sterilized prior to marriage didn't "work" because
> it didn't keep me from marrying a breeder. I
> disagree, because it protected me in the most
> important way: he didn't get to fuck with my
> birth control or make a unilateral decision about
> whether I was going to be saddled with a brat for
> 18 years.

Exactly! Men will fuck with a woman's birth control when he feels he cannot control her. Tossing the pills is something that does happen but is not talked about as a wife is more likely to not abort than a single woman. That is why I also got my tubal. No one was going to try to saddle me with an ungrateful brat for 18+ years, either. My soon-to-be ex was always whining how I would have had beautiful and smart kids had I not been sterilized. Being snipped does not mean that wanna-breeds still do not come into a person's life!

Bell_Flower, you are also right how most women are the sneakiest cunts around as females have been taught how a man has to be conned into marriage and fatherhood. I remember hearing that shit as a wee sproglette. Fuck, I hear it from grown-ass women now! Every single man should take responsibility for contraception and get a vasectomy (if he is certain he does not want those babies) because some sneaky cunt will trick him if he is resistant.

You got that right. Because most men are not very proactive when it comes to birth control - they think the woman "has it handled" - they have no one to thank but themselves when girlfriend/wifelett announces she's knocked up.

Most men won't stand up to GF/wifelett and say "NO KIDS" and get himself a vasectomy. And that's sad. What will they do, leave him? WHO CARES! At least he won't be saddled with a brat and a bitch - which is just about what every woman morphs into once she's spawned and has that mayun by his wallet.

Frankly, I find it a huge turn-on whenever a guy says he doesn't want kids. Every time my partner makes a CF comment, I practically want to take him down right there. Maybe that's weird, but damn, a guy who doesn't want enslavement any more than I do?? Hell yeah!!

Before I started having sex with my partner, I DEFINITELY had the crucial talk--no one has any diseases, we're on the same page about what would happen if I got pregnant (as I told him, "look, I wouldn't feel right having an abortion, but the thing would be up for adoption as soon as it popped out, and I just want to make sure you wouldn't go all starry-eyed during the pregnancy and decide you wanted to keep it after all, because IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN."). I see nothing wrong with having that talk before having sex; I think it's the responsible thing to do.

I dunno. I just manage to stumble on CF people...quite by accident, most of the people I've chosen for friends have not wanted kids, or at the least been on the fence about it. Must just be something about the type of person I like to hang out with. And most of the people I've had relationships with have been friends first, so...(plus that makes it easier because they knew my views long before they ever were more than friends with me, so no surprises).

I think there are a lot of ways to bring your CF-ness up without sitting a woman down and saying "look, I don't want kids, what d'ya say?" In fact, I did this very thing in an early discussion with my partner and it seemed to sort of bomb (in part probably because, well, it'll freak anybody out when you bring up kids early on, whether to say you want them or don't--it looks like you're already planning a serious, long-term relationship). Grossed-out comments about kids or kid movies, expressing sympathy for a friend who just popped one out, etc. tend to work pretty well and then the sit-down, obvious conversation can come later. Also, often in normal conversation the opportunity may come up to say it--a friend may say "I think I want two kids" and you can casually inject that you don't want any and then go on to another topic.

K2144, adopting the kid out may not be as easy as it may seem. The fellow can petition to keep the baby. This has happened when a woman does not feel right about abortion and wants the baby put up for adoption. Some states require the biological father's signature on the adoption form as well. And...you could possibly have an angry young adult looking for you later in life because s/he has "issues" of being "given away". Just an FYI...

Oh, I know he could try to keep it...that's why I made it VERY clear that I wanted him to be on the same page about it, because I wasn't going to tolerate any BUT i WANT IT!!! bullshit, and so he would know there would be no changing my mind.

As far as it finding me later...I'd just tell them, "I want to go as far as I can toward sealing the records permanently. I'll provide any medical history info it might need, but I don't want it looking me up later." I think I've heard you can do that. Because you're right, I wouldn't want it coming back 18 years later to ruin my life again, thinking that I'd be all "oh i'm your mommy i love you and I'll take you in with open arms!" because I sure as hell wouldn't!

K2144, I just find abortion easier than trying to do so much to cover my tracks via adoption.

Many men could change their mind and decide they want the baby after s/he is born. When my first tubal failed, the idea of adoption was never entertained. Why would I want nine months of hell and the souvenir of stretch marks even if the kid was given away??? I know I would have to explain THAT to any man I was involved with...and most men do not want to be with a woman who has continued a pregnancy despite the child being given up for adoption...unless he wants to breed. Just what I heard from others.

I am very pro-abortion and was more than relieved when I had the abortion in 1994. On another childfree page I used to post on, there was a woman who gave up a baby for adoption. She was fine...for awhile...but the bingos started along with the anti-abortion talk. She suddenly disappeared from the MSN CF site along with the pro-choice page she moderated. I doubt many of these women "get over" adopting the kid out.

It's just not something I'd feel right doing myself. I don't give a shit if anyone else does it (although I hate those folks that do it because they couldn't be mythered to use birth control in the first place), but I couldn't do it.

K12144 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's just not something I'd feel right doing
> myself. I don't give a shit if anyone else does
> it (although I hate those folks that do it because
> they couldn't be mythered to use birth control in
> the first place), but I couldn't do it.

I used birth control when I got pregnant -- got a tubal ligation in 1987. The thing "failed". Laser method is not the best as there is no guarantee the tubes are charred through. A year-and-a-half after the abortion, I got a second tubal. It does not matter why a woman gets an abortion. People not using contraception is stupid but many are foolish. However, it is no one's business as to what the woman was using or not using when she aborts. I hope you are not ever in the situation of having to adopt out as pregnancy often changes the man how he feels which leads him to cause trouble. Your body; your choice; but I find that this is more of a Russian Roulette. I often wondered why pro-life girls/women just did not eliminate sex until marriage. Unfortunately, a lot of guys look at women who adopted out as "damaged goods" due to the damage on their bodies. It is shallow but a fact of life with many fellows. JMHO...

>I often wondered why pro-life girls/women just did not eliminate sex >until marriage.

Because sex is a natural human drive that most people engage in, no matter what circumstances they live in. Just because some preacher says you shouldn't, or the warden says it's against the rules and if you get caught you'll get thrown in solitary, or the abbot says it's a sin, it still happens. It's one of those things a human animal does when allowed to form bonds with other human animals.

Oh yeah, and once you stop being abstinent, it stops working. If you have no other access to any form of protection other than "say no, even if it feels real good", chances are someone's going to get pregnant, or a std.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

And it's one of those things that's hard to avoid.

I tried the "no sex until marriage thing" (mostly from fear of pregnancy and moral concerns). Almost four years later, my ex found it with someone else instead.

And yes, I partly blame myself. That wasn't fair to him, to make him go that long. (although, at first he was of the same mind. It was only later that he got to the point of begging/constantly pestering me for sex)

Now mind you, I think there are plenty of people who have no business having sex (and these are usually the ones who don't bother with birth control then seek abortion as a quick fix), but there are plenty of others who can't avoid it (folks who are married, for example).

Why is not "fair" to make someone wait if you are so "moral" about sexuality, K2144? I often wonder about the Pro-Life CF'er with the "morality" thing but will have sex to appease a mate. If someone does not respect a person who does not want sex, s/he is not worth being around. It goes to show how the "moral girl" often will cave...but still want Traditional Marriage. Most of those gals do end up having those babies if the b/c fails. Hardly any wife is going to put up the baby for adoption if there is an unwanted pregnancy and she does not want to abort for "moral" reasons.

I was with a man for a long long time and just let him go this past August.He was there when I got fixed and I even asked him his opinion before I did it and asked him if he wanted any kids and that this was his last chance to give me any input on the subject.Well,of course he said he didn't care if I got fixed and it was my body to make the decision with.On the night that I broke up wioth him,the truth came out.He told me that it made him sad that I was the most beautiful woman he'd ever seen (he never told me this during our 16 year relationship,by the way)and it made him sad that I didn't want to have a chyyyuld with him.This comes from a man who is the quintessential Peter Pan who cannot make a decision worth a shit.Yeah,I want you to have a chyyyuld for me and you do all of the work raising it.Riiight.Almost as fun as shoving a rusty needle into both of your eyeballs.I would have had to do 80-90% of paying for the chyyyuld's needs too as this man was a lazy unmotivated asshole too. This came from a guy with minimal finances who was never motivated to get a better job,ever.My verdict is tell whoever you date up front that you are fixed.If they have a problem with it,then it is their problem,and to Hell with them if they cannot accept you as you are.I took birth control pills for 13 years and they made me feel like I was dying,(he didn't contribute to this financially either, even though the pill was protecting him too,and the pill is expensive-$25.00-35.00/month) and killed off my sex drive.Being fixed brought back my sex drive and released me from the fear of unwanted pregnancy and allowed me to enjoy sex a lot more.That is priceless.

Rapunzel, I went on the Pill again after the abortion when the first tubal failed. It was worse in my 30's than in my early 20's on birth control pills. I felt horrible and nauseous all of the time. Forget about sex drive despite a man in my life who just wanted to get it on and was upset when I told him that I never really wanted sex again. When I got fixed the second time in 1996, I felt so much better and the "drive" had returned.

Gag me when those men say a woman is so "beautiful" and how they are sorry the lady will not shit out his DNA sample. Please...what a fucking crock! Most men are then complaining how the woman is NOT beautiful any longer once they made her a moo. Then...it is all about: "Why don't you want sex any longer?"; "Why are you still heavy"? (even though it has only been two months since the thing was shat out); "Why don't you have time for me? (when moo has to do all of the cunt work of caring for a sprog as well as work full-time); and so forth.

Glad you got this fucker out of your life! I am certain he will get another woman to support his ass and believe all of that "beautiful" flattery shit to get her to pop out a pussy pop tart. Today, I legally got rid of my ex-leech. Let him find another broad to put up with his sorry ass. Fuck yeah...I am very upfront with anyone about my tubal. If they do not like it, TOO FUCKING BAD, MOTHERFUCKER ALREADY!!!

Why does it matter to anyone the reasons why a woman decides to have an abortion? To me, it's about a woman's right to NOT have children she does not want, period. It's not about the rights of unborn cells who would be unable to exist outside of the woman's body, it's not about the rights of "potential people" because they're just that...potential, and in my world only actual people should have rights.
What does it matter to ANYONE if a woman is choosing to spend $500 every time she wants to terminate an unwanted pregnancy instead of spending money on actual birth control? I am just really annoyed with folks who say they "support abortion" out of one side of their mouths, and then go on about how "terrible and tragic" it is that women have to do this. It is not terrible to end a pregnancy that you do not want. It is not tragic to know yourself, and make decisions based on what you believe you can and can not do. What is terrible and tragic are the hundreds of (if not thousands) women who chose to have children they do not want because most of society, "liberals" included, says "abortion is distasteful, even if you have the right to choose it, we'd really rather you didn't."

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Feh, most people who want a reason other than not using birth control why a woman aborts is truly forced birth for everyone. It is rare for someone to be pro-life for herself even if she claims she does not care what others do. Apparently, those sorts do if they start pointing fingers to try to figure out if the woman was careless. Better the woman abort then to give birth. Most pro-life "CF'ers" will birth that accident and keep it. As for being "sorry" for having sex, that is so typical among these women. Funny how a certain one had sex but called another woman a "slut". Pot. Kettle. Black. Liberals are the biggest hypocrites as well. They want abortion available only if the woman cannot afford it. Tell one of these pro-choicers that you are childfree and they act as that is so terrible.

No need to talk about me as if I'm not around, nor to put words in my mouth.

It just seems to me that abortion is one of the only times in life when one can be irresponsible, reap the consequences of those actions, and go to someone and have them instantly make it all better without one learning a damn thing. (unless one's rich and can bribe someone to let one out of a traffic ticket or bad grade or whatever) And yes, I'm sorry that pisses me off, but I'm tired of irresponsible people having their actions be okay. I don't think these irresponsible cuntfaces should be bringing kids into the world either, hence part of the reason I don't actually feel abortion should be illegal, but perhaps there should be some other consequence, like mandatory birth control to ensure that they don't keep doing the same damn thing over and over again.

K12144 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No need to talk about me as if I'm not around, nor
> to put words in my mouth.
>
> It just seems to me that abortion is one of the
> only times in life when one can be irresponsible,
> reap the consequences of those actions, and go to
> someone and have them instantly make it all better
> without one learning a damn thing. (unless one's
> rich and can bribe someone to let one out of a
> traffic ticket or bad grade or whatever) And yes,
> I'm sorry that pisses me off, but I'm tired of
> irresponsible people having their actions be okay.
> I don't think these irresponsible cuntfaces
> should be bringing kids into the world either,
> hence part of the reason I don't actually feel
> abortion should be illegal, but perhaps there
> should be some other consequence, like mandatory
> birth control to ensure that they don't keep doing
> the same damn thing over and over again.


The consequence? Let's see, the procedure runs close to $1000 if you want all the medications and pain killers. A $1000 bill and pain is not enough? What about all the fuckers standing by the clinic doors, and make you want to vomit? There are plenty of consequences. I think every abortion performed saves us, the taxpayers, money. I thank all the girls out there (who made their own choices) for choosing wisely.