Pro-liars get their way in Indiana

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Cambion
I also wonder if this lady would have faced legal repercussions had she been Caucasian. I don't know how racially diverse Indiana is, but I have a feeling that race may have played a role in this woman's sentence.

I don't know that it is a race issue here but rather the fact that she probably did not have a whole lot of money to begin with and probably could not afford a good attorney. This woman comes from a culture where a woman does not have many rights, so she could have been fear mongered by prosecutors into admitting guilt when she was really innocent.

In big cities like Indianapolis and Gary, Indiana is diverse. In small towns, not really, mostly white folks there.

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Cambion
This is a pretty bleak case. Any woman could go to the ER for a miscarriage (induced or otherwise) or just plain heavy bleeding from endo/PCOS/fibroids and leave in handcuffs because someone feels that a fetus or potential fetus has rights.

I agree. That is why I am following this story as it unfolds. Not only am I hoping that this woman is set free, I am hoping that law professors take a few more steps and make sure that nobody else ever encounters any of this.

Stories like this one are direct confirmation of warnings that the pro-choice advocates have been giving for years: when abortion is restricted or banned, the authorities will then investigate miscarriages. Well, here we are.

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Techie

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Cambion
I also wonder if this lady would have faced legal repercussions had she been Caucasian. I don't know how racially diverse Indiana is, but I have a feeling that race may have played a role in this woman's sentence.

I don't know that it is a race issue here but rather the fact that she probably did not have a whole lot of money to begin with and probably could not afford a good attorney. This woman comes from a culture where a woman does not have many rights, so she could have been fear mongered by prosecutors into admitting guilt when she was really innocent.

In big cities like Indianapolis and Gary, Indiana is diverse. In small towns, not really, mostly white folks there.

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Cambion
This is a pretty bleak case. Any woman could go to the ER for a miscarriage (induced or otherwise) or just plain heavy bleeding from endo/PCOS/fibroids and leave in handcuffs because someone feels that a fetus or potential fetus has rights.

I agree. That is why I am following this story as it unfolds. Not only am I hoping that this woman is set free, I am hoping that law professors take a few more steps and make sure that nobody else ever encounters any of this.

IMO IN is not very 'diverse'. Oh sure up N it is, outside of that - no. It's mostly very 'rural conservative'. Keep in mind I came from SW Lower MI, I now live in Chicago. This - 'area' is kind of 'all the same'. Up N here. Most of the far N of IN is industrial. Or was. The rest of the state is pretty 'country'. As far as I know.

I am interested in local biz and RE, I keep my eye on all the near states. I think much of this has to do with shifty biz looking to make inroads. Or, some of the 'social issues' pearl clutching is meant as a distraction - which works both ways - on their constituents who agree, and the opposers who are outraged. Look over there! It might be a Gay Single Mother! Emergency Manager Law? (MI) oh, that's nothing! Look over there - we're enacting new abortion restrictions! (Don't look over here where we just turned over a chunk of Benton Harbor's shore line to private developers).

There's alot of shifty crooked biz in this general region. Yep, the K Bros are here too. You can smell their lovely cologne in NW IN, smells like petcoke.

Oh and THIS is HILARIOUS!!! ~
IL has a new Republican Governor, Bruce Rauner. I am a Democrat and voted for Pat Quinn. Most of us 'Up N here' did. It was the 'downstate' IL people who voted for him. I'm open minded and thought - well, give the guy a chance, maybe he'll do some good. My Mom said, she of course doesn't live here and does not vote for this, but from seeing ads on TV and news stories and etc. - she said that she 'liked his wife' / she seems nice. Yeah, that's maybe not a good way to choose a candidate - but - she's not a voter here so who cares. And after seeing her (Diana Rauner) speak a few times I decided that I like her too.

The funny part: Rauner started 'slashing budgets' and one of the first things to go were some down state Autism programs. And the Cows lowed and bleated in an udder twisting frenzy! Staged protests and everything. Hey - YOU voted for the guy! YOU wanted spending cut! YOU asked for it - YOU got it!

I watch all this stuff because I am interested in the RE biz, and local biz in general.

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kman
Stories like this one are direct confirmation of warnings that the pro-choice advocates have been giving for years: when abortion is restricted or banned, the authorities will then investigate miscarriages. Well, here we are.

This is pretty much my argument behind why @#$%& should be aloud to undergo sterilization at any age they can concent to, if I slipped up somehow and ended up inpig, I would be frantically searching to get aborted asap, but if abortion becomes conditional, I would have to induce self abortion the old fashion way, lots a stairs, fasting, trauma to the midsection or insertion of sharp object and a stay in hospital.

I would put myself through it all just to avoid pregnancy and having a kid point blank, the alternative permanent sterilizations starting to look real good by comparison, (not that it didn't before).

I see punishing someone over miscarriage or abortion one step towards removing my right to become sterilized or right to remain child free, I see both steps as a threat to all @#$%& not just myself. Soon just buying food that are known to harm unborn baby's will land some lady in court, something simple like to many poppie seeds on a pie or buying green patched potato's for same day consumption.

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Exile
Soon just buying food that are known to harm unborn baby's will land some lady in court...

On a small scale, it is already happening. If they find anything questionable in pregnant woman's body during a check up, they could report it. Doctor's office basically acting like a drug enforcement agency. No, pregnant women should not be doing drugs, but at the same time, if one substance can be reported, why not report something else. It is a slippery slope, ladies and gentlemen.

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Techie

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Exile
Soon just buying food that are known to harm unborn baby's will land some lady in court...

On a small scale, it is already happening. If they find anything questionable in pregnant woman's body during a check up, they could report it. Doctor's office basically acting like a drug enforcement agency. No, pregnant women should not be doing drugs, but at the same time, if one substance can be reported, why not report something else. It is a slippery slope, ladies and gentlemen.

I don't remember the exact case but I do recall a woman having her baby taken away because she had eaten something with poppy seeds in it. It made the drug test of the baby read positive even though she did no drugs. I'm surprised they haven't outlawed anything with poppy seeds.

Bump.

Ran across this story recently, and it fits the topic in a most scary way. Reproduced here under fair use for discussion.

http://www.latimes.com/world/great-reads/la-fg-c1-el-salvador-women-20150415-story.html#page=1

EL SALVADOR JAILS WOMEN FOR MISCARRIAGES AND STILLBIRTHS

By TRACY WILKINSON

[15 April 2015]

When Guadalupe Vasquez became pregnant at 17 after being raped by a neighbor of the house where she worked as a maid, she decided she wanted the baby. She even picked out a name: Gabriel.

Then, on a day in late 2007, pain shot through her back and abdomen. Vasquez says she started bleeding, but her employer wouldn't let her leave the house to get medical care. Sick in her room and alone, she went into labor.

She heard the baby cry briefly, and then he was dead.

Only then did the employer send her to the hospital, saying she did not want to "deal with two dead in my house," Vasquez recalls. She passed out, and when she came to, she was handcuffed to the bed at a state hospital.

The rapist was free, but now it would be Vasquez who would go to prison — for seven years and three months.

Vasquez is one of several women in El Salvador who have been sentenced to as long as 50 years behind bars — not for having an abortion, which is illegal in the country, but as a result of miscarriages or stillborn births. In these cases, prosecutors have accused the women of causing the death of their fetus or infant.

El Salvador, along with neighboring Nicaragua and three other countries, has the strictest abortion laws in the hemisphere. Virtually no exception is allowed for the termination of pregnancy, not for rape, incest, malformed fetus or danger to the woman's life.

Yet the law is being taken to another extreme: imprisoning women who say the loss of their fetus or child was not their doing.

Four days after Vasquez awoke in handcuffs, she was whisked to a courtroom. After two brief hearings, she says, she received a 30-year prison sentence for homicide.

"I didn't understand what was happening," said the recently freed Vasquez, who is from a rural village and never made it past third grade. A court-appointed attorney "barely spoke to me. He didn't defend me in anything."

Salvadoran activists who have taken up the cause of Vasquez and other women have identified 17 similar cases and believe at least 15 more such prisoners languish in overcrowded Salvadoran prisons, alongside gangsters and murderers.

The Salvadoran Citizens' Coalition for the Decriminalization of Abortion offers even bleaker statistics: 129 women prosecuted between 2000 and 2011 for "abortion" crimes, 23 convicted for having received an illegal abortion and 26 convicted of homicide.

Activist Sara Garcia said Salvadoran laws disproportionately harm women who are poor and uneducated, but also reflect a general "hatred of women."

"We live in a misogynist, machista society … with prejudices about how a woman should behave and the punishment she should receive for not fulfilling those expectations," Garcia said. "There is no presumption of innocence."

The activists and a team of defense lawyers are demanding freedom for the women. Under the banner of an organization called Las 17, they have filed petitions for pardons for the 17 women.

Vasquez, now 25, was granted the first pardon by a bitterly divided legislature. The legal underpinning was that Vasquez was denied due process in her original hearings. Her attorney, Dennis Muñoz, has said she was a victim of a "witch hunt on women."

Vasquez stepped out of the Ilopango women's prison on the outskirts of San Salvador in late February.

Cristina Quintanilla, sentenced to 30 years after she had a miscarriage, was released last year by a court, which commuted her sentence to three years, amounting to time served. Another prisoner, identified publicly only as Mirna, was ordered released by the Supreme Court after 12 years behind bars. The court ruled that her sentence for attempted murder was excessive. In her case, the baby had survived.

International organizations including Amnesty International and the United Nations have asked El Salvador to relax its abortion laws, which also result in the jailing of doctors who perform the procedure. The World Health Organization estimates that more than 35,000 women in El Salvador obtain unsafe, clandestine abortions every year.

The irony for some is that two countries with such strict laws, El Salvador and Nicaragua, are run by leftist governments.

In the case of Nicaragua, the explanation is rooted in political expediency. Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega, struggling to regain the presidency after a series of electoral defeats, needed Nicaragua's powerful Roman Catholic Church on his side. He struck a deal with erstwhile enemy Cardinal Miguel Obando y Bravo, the man who had vehemently opposed him when Ortega was a fiery revolutionary comandante in the 1970s and '80s.

With the church's help, Ortega won the presidency in late 2006, was inaugurated in January 2007, and a year later, a congress controlled by Ortega strengthened Nicaragua's 100-year-old abortion law to make the procedure illegal in all cases.

In El Salvador, the abortion ban dates to the two-decade reign of the conservative Arena party. In 1998, when the country had only recently emerged from a devastating civil war, conservative sectors of the Catholic Church, including the ultra-right-wing Opus Dei, campaigned successfully for a change in the constitution that declared life began with conception.

An absolute prohibition of abortion has stayed in place even though the leftist Farabundo Marti National Liberation Front won the presidency in 2009 and has governed since. Only in the last months has President Salvador Sanchez Ceren said the matter "needed discussion."

El Salvador's abortion law gained international attention in 2013 with the case of a woman identified publicly as Beatriz.

Beatriz, a 22-year-old peasant, suffered from lupus and was several months pregnant with her second child when the fetus was diagnosed with anencephaly, meaning it would be born without part of the brain and could not survive. Doctors determined that her own medical condition made carrying the baby to term a threat to Beatriz's life.

She appealed all the way to the Supreme Court to be allowed to terminate her pregnancy, but her petition was denied, in effect ordering her to carry to term a baby that would not live and might instead kill her. Ultimately, in a de facto compromise, she was given a caesarean section in June 2013, when the fetus was 27 weeks. The baby died five hours later. Beatriz today continues to recover.

As for Guadalupe Vasquez, her seven years and three months in prison changed her world, for good and for bad.

Violent gangs that she steadfastly avoided tangling with in prison now control the rural neighborhood where she lives, as is the case in much of El Salvador — so egregiously that she was afraid to have journalists call on her at home.

At one point, after attention in local media last month, gangsters came to her house asking for her. She had to hide. "It wasn't like that before," she said.

On the bright side, Vasquez earned a high school degree while in prison and can aspire to do more with her life than work as maid in potentially abusive households. She is not sure yet what she will do.

"The lawyers helped me a lot, but they can only do so much," she said. "Now it's up to God."

No exceptions even for malformed fetuses, or the life of the mother?
So these He-Man Womun Haters actually expect women to stroke out, or attempt to squeeze out "spiderbabies" and baybeez with 20-inch-wide heads (yes, it's possible)? That's extra fucked up.

It has already been mentioned on our boards, and bears repeating, that virtually every country "south of the border" is fucking impoverished -- because the Catholic Powers That Be decided that every pignancy must result in a birth, no exceptions. And don't even get me started on the 10-year-old in Nicaragua who's being DENIED an abortion...

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Kman

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LA Times
The irony for some is that two countries with such strict [anti-abortion] laws, El Salvador and Nicaragua, are run by leftist governments.

This is something that I have mentioned before. Our recent administration has been "staying on the left", but it seems like access to abortion is being attacked from every direction.

The more I observe the more I see similarities between the 2 parties that we have. There is a global war on abortion and the belligerents are not directly from either political parties. Pro-liars have figured out how to get on both sides of the isle and they continue to push their agenda.

Did you read about that Wisconsin bill which would allow sperm poisoners to sue for the emotional distress of a woman hurting their peewins by aborting?

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...the bill would allow the father to sue the doctor for damages, "including damages for personal injury and emotional and psychological distress," if the doctor performs or attempts to perform an abortion after the 20-week limit. The man does not need to be married to the woman or even in a relationship with her to sue her doctor, as long as the pregnancy is not a result of sexual assault or incest. The bill also says the woman can sue.

Remember that creepy as fuck billboard guy (Greg Fultz; we discussed him here, and here)? He's probably creaming his underwear over this.

That creepy billboard stalker had a daughter in 2012. I guess the moo decided to dump his sorry ass, because he mentions talking to her on the phone as his only contact with her. And of course, all the bullshit about fathers' rights...

https://www.facebook.com/GregFultzPublic

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dads-Against-Devastating-Decisions/106488319442702?__nodl

https://www.facebook.com/FLJFultz?__nodl

I am on a small tablet, so researching, copying, and pasting things into Bratfree s a little difficult.

What lonely, desperate woman would sleep with a creepy fucker such as Greg Fultz?? And bear a child with his DNA?? There are some really stupid women out there.

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yurble
Did you read about that Wisconsin bill which would allow sperm poisoners to sue for the emotional distress of a woman hurting their peewins by aborting?

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...the bill would allow the father to sue the doctor for damages, "including damages for personal injury and emotional and psychological distress," if the doctor performs or attempts to perform an abortion after the 20-week limit. The man does not need to be married to the woman or even in a relationship with her to sue her doctor, as long as the pregnancy is not a result of sexual assault or incest. The bill also says the woman can sue.

Remember that creepy as fuck billboard guy (Greg Fultz; we discussed him here, and here)? He's probably creaming his underwear over this.

Ugh, I knew one of these whiny wanna-duhs from high school. He was all broken up that his high school gf "killed" their baby without telling him she was pregnant first. He nursed that thing "she did to him" for YEARS after high school. I heard about it when we were both still in school, then wound up working with him three years later.
I thought he was long over it, but we began hanging out some after work, kind of getting close, but then he bared his soul after some intoxicant, and yup, still obsessing over it all those years later.
That was a huge turnoff and we didn't hang out much at all after that.