CF Reddit...REALLY? You need to just fucking stop.

@ Peace:
That was only a rhetorical question :-)
I know that all breeders get deleted here.
TCFL has the same policy.

I am only amazed that breeders won't let it go and STILL keep trying...

I don't know CF reddit but when you say
that EVERYONE can post there I won't bother.

I think one of the problems is that breeders feel the need to be popular with EVERYONE, the CF included. The only problem is, that most CF don't give a shit about breeders and their issues. At least not the ass-licking, udder-rubbing breeder-pleasers that are out there floating around on the web.

Their need to feel popular compels them to bust in on every imagined website and forum, including ones where they are really not welcome. They need to hear from the CF that they are really 'different', not breeders and that they are cool.

We've had a couple of breeders try and pull that shit here, and they got their asses ROASTED on a spit! Haha, nothing like a good old fashioned troll roast to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

@mumofsixbirds:
That must be it! I can't think of any other reasonable explanation...
Can you imagine it the other way round?
You would appear on some moo site and pretend you understand their
problems with kydz :-))))

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mrs. chinaski
@mumofsixbirds:
That must be it! I can't think of any other reasonable explanation...
Can you imagine it the other way round?
You would appear on some moo site and pretend you understand their
problems with kydz :-))))

I was just about to say something like this.

its true, we don't go to their moo group sites and try to give them advice in the form of empathy, we know what their probably dealing with, its why were CF, the difference is, they cant empathise with us, because they cant even figure out what child free means, let alone the lives that come with it.

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mumofsixbirds
I think one of the problems is that breeders feel the need to be popular with EVERYONE, the CF included.

We've had a couple of breeders try and pull that shit here, and they got their asses ROASTED on a spit! Haha, nothing like a good old fashioned troll roast to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one, a breeder buying into the life script TM, involves the need to feel accepted by everyone, they have to live the life everyone else wants them to live, have kids like people want them to, brag about said kids as is expected of moos these days, be a part of moo groups in person and online like is expected these days. none of that really seems like it was their desires being fulfilled, but trying to make everyone they know happy by doing what they need to, to be accepted by those people.

maybe that's why moos always call CF people selfish, without even realising that every choice they've made is for their own selfish desire to be accepted and please someone else's wishes.

also who dosnt like roasting a moo troll over a CF fire, always good in winter

The parents who feel the urge to join childfree sites and go, "Oh I agree with you guys!" piss me off slightly less compared to their "ur so meen and evil u were kids once 2!" counterparts, but it's still patronizing to hear "Duhhh, I'm a mommy, but I agree with everything you said!"

The breeders who claim to understand us think that we're some kind of club/support group and they come here - completely ignoring the rules - and add nothing constructive, but tell us they know how we feel. No they don't! Even if I thought a PNB on a Moo site was exercising good parenting skills, I wouldn't join just to go, "You're doing a good job of raising your child. I don't have or want kids, but just wanted to let you know." I also think some younger parents like to slap the CF label on themselves because it sounds hip and kewl and they find ways to justify calling themselves childfree, like the brats are at Grandma's for the weekend, they had a kid and gave it away, they murdered their kid or they just hate the kids they have.

But that's the thing, we're not trying to be edgy hipsters and it's not some fancy club. Childfreedom is just people who share a common interest, to put it broadly. Call it a choice, an instinct, an orientation, I'm not gonna split hairs over it. Being CF isn't about hatred or rebellion like most breeders think - it's simply one of many ways of life. Unlike breeders, we don't need validation or our asses licked. At least on this site, everyone is sure about their choice and we don't need an A-OK from anyone else to feel secure about not breeding.

Here's the funny part: if breeders just didn't mention their fuckin' kids all the time (and use the same emails as the ones they use on their mommy sites), they could easily stay "under the radar" on CF sites. They just can't shut their yaps about their shrieklings and that's what outs them.

CF reddit is just a bunch of breeder pleasers. I've read posts where the person couldn't have kids (but wanted them) and declared themselves childfree. Then all the breeder pleasers jump in and pat them on the head.

I looked at that thread on Reddit. OMG, that is such a clusterfuck, I don't even know where to begin!

______________

- The human gene pool could use a little chlorine

@ Cambion:
" Here's the funny part: if breeders just didn't mention their fuckin' kids all the time (and use the same emails as the ones they use on their mommy sites), they could easily stay "under the radar" on CF sites. They just can't shut their yaps about their shrieklings and that's what outs them."
AMEN!

This is the reason I hate talking to / chatting with breeders. They ALWAYS manage to direct the conversation to their crotchfruits. They constantly feel the need to point out that they are parents and you aren't.
F.e.
Last time I talked to my DH's cousin about investments.
I said to her: I would like to buy some shares. I am not sure which ones. Maybe Kraft Foods, maybe Nestle etc.
She said to me: I think the best investment is investment into education of your children!
-> WTF????
I could give you thousands of examples like that.

@ exile: I think that this "breeders need to be popular with everyone" can also come from the insecurity but that
would be like 10% of the cases. 90% is selfishness.

I swear every time I read the phrase "troll roast" I start hearing the song "Chestnuts roasting over an open fire". I so LOVE reading those . They give me the smiley's!
:biggrin2

I am no native speaker. "Troll roast" sounds to me like a serious case of cannibalism :-)

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mrs. chinaski
I am no native speaker. "Troll roast" sounds to me like a serious case of cannibalism :-)

Haha, I keep reading it as toll road on first glance, or saying it as roll toast XD god my brain fails me sometimes and I'm a native English speaker.

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mrs. chinaski
@ Peace:
That was only a rhetorical question :-)
I know that all breeders get deleted here.
TCFL has the same policy.

If they do, that's a new one, because when I was there, they were allowed to post, and outside of the 'fencesitter' area, too. It also seems unlikely, given that the person who runs the site is married to a duh who does site admin, a fact that she brought up when some people asked for breeders to be restricted to just the fencesitter section.

@ yurble: I don't know that much about the site as you do (history, admins, etc).

I only saw that there appeared some breeders on a mission to convert the CF,
they got immediately deleted.

Then there was a thread "Honest mum answers your questions". A woman who never liked
children got two and offered to answer questions about a moohood in that particular situation.
People reacted hostile towards her, they wrote to her something like "there is no lack of breeders
in our lives we can ask, stop posting, this is a CF site".

I don't see anything breeder-friendly on TCFL.

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yurble

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mrs. chinaski
@ Peace:
That was only a rhetorical question :-)
I know that all breeders get deleted here.
TCFL has the same policy.

If they do, that's a new one, because when I was there, they were allowed to post, and outside of the 'fencesitter' area, too. It also seems unlikely, given that the person who runs the site is married to a duh who does site admin, a fact that she brought up when some people asked for breeders to be restricted to just the fencesitter section.

I also remember when CF people had to watch what they said on the TCFL, so as to not offend breeders posting there. That was the reason I came to Bratfree. I was tired of self-censoring my posts because some breeder might get offended. I still have my accout there, and login from time to time.

If they've changed their policy, then that's a big step in the right direction. Parents don't need to be posting on a CF board.

They just posted a reminder of the rules, and right in black and white...

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"Parents are welcome to post as long as they are respectful."

http://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/36j4my/new_subreddit_rules/


Gag me with a fucking silver spoon.

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mrs. chinaski
I have mixed feelings about it.

I agree those people are NOT CF!
They are like "parents with regrets" or something = parregts ??? :-)))
They definitely should stop trying to become members of the CF community.

On the other hand, I somehow feel for them. They are mostly young
and inexperienced. They were heavily influenced by
the society, by their parunts etc. to follow the LifeScript. They did what was
expected from them, "the right thing" and now they are unhappy and there is
no way back.

There is no reason to "feel for them." Nobody is making the declare their CF status now or ever. If they prefer to keep it private if or until they are ready and sure to declare CF status they can stay away from claiming to be CF. Some people decide early, some decide late. Whatever. If a person has spawned or unsure about spawning they are not CF. If they are males and not protecting themselves from pregnancy they are not CF.
Prime example is my CF self who married a fence-sitter who had a vasectomy the month after we married. His choice to become CF with me. I have been CF since before I ever had sex.
ETA that we had agreed to be a CF couple but not on his vasectomy before marriage. It was a happy bonus.

So, obviously I was wrong.

I only wrote about my experience, I never saw anything breeder-friendly on that site.

The moderator La Tormenta uses this quote in her posts:
"I don't understand parents. When I see them with their beady eyes and their little smirking mouths, I just think they're from a different f*cking species." :-))))

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gnocchi
Sounds like that Redditor went and squirted out a kid that she didn't particularly want, and only then discovered that-- oh noes-- it isn't all sunshine and unicorn farts! And that just because you CAN reproduce, doesn't mean you OUGHT to! Congrats on adding to the world's misery and its population in one swing, Moo.

It always makes me wonder if some of people who follow this script were raised in a barn, amongst the livestock. They never had younger siblings, babysat, or had to deal with children at all. But they did see all the cute little animals: adorable piglets, jaunty little ponies, effervescent chicks, playful calves, etc.

Maybe they just sat in the barn, watching stupid tv and movies encouraging them to breed, shaking their heads and behind their vacant eyes the thought of "one day that will be me."
Perhaps Lifetime, with the many baby stealing plots?

Then the day finally arrived and baby is shat out and presto! it isn't all sunshine and unicorn farts! So deceived! So very deceived by the barn and livestock upbringing! Thought the baby would reach sexual maturity within 2-3 years like my chicken did, waaahhhh! Didn't realize babies talk, my pony didn't, wahhhhh!

@ evilchildlessbitch: Thank you for you post.
Your story is interesting. It looks like the people who say
that the woman is the driving power in a relationship and
man just goes along are right.

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mrs. chinaski
@ evilchildlessbitch: Thank you for you post.
Your story is interesting. It looks like the people who say
that the woman is the driving power in a relationship and
man just goes along are right.

Don't you think it depends on the relationship?

That said, many more women are passionate on the subject of children than men are, in both directions, probably because our bodies and careers are more invested. And of course society pushes us more over it, which is why I assume there are more women on this site than men.

@ yurble:

I don't know.
I think if there is a combo of a CF woman and a man who wants to have kydz,
it depends on how strong is his drive is.
When he wants to be father really badly, he will leave.
But a man who wants to have kydz really badly is IMO an exception.
I believe that most men are indifferent.

I read on the internet the following facts:
20% women are childless, 20% couples are childless (different sources).
Based on this data, there are at least 20% men who don't have children.

I would say if here are more women than men, that means that women
have different needs in terms of communication and as you say, they
are more invested in this topic because of the society pressure.

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mumofsixbirds
I think one of the problems is that breeders feel the need to be popular with EVERYONE, the CF included. The only problem is, that most CF don't give a shit about breeders and their issues. At least not the ass-licking, udder-rubbing breeder-pleasers that are out there floating around on the web.

Their need to feel popular compels them to bust in on every imagined website and forum, including ones where they are really not welcome. They need to hear from the CF that they are really 'different', not breeders and that they are cool.

We've had a couple of breeders try and pull that shit here, and they got their asses ROASTED on a spit! Haha, nothing like a good old fashioned troll roast to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Mmmmm......troll roast.

I so enjoy ripping them apart and burning their little butthurt parts all over our forum.

mob

~~~~~~~~~~~
I miss my little feather baby.

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mrs. chinaski

I read on the internet the following facts:
20% women are childless, 20% couples are childless (different sources).
Based on this data, there are at least 20% men who don't have children.

That's not necessarily true. A small percentage of men can (and do) have sex with a large percentage of women.

For example, if 100 women produce one baby each, it is possible that those babies could be sired by 100 different fathers... or 99 fathers... or 98... or every other number all the way down to 1.

The number of men without children could be greater, or less than, the 20% figure you point out.

20% may be correct... but your methodology in arriving at that answer is flawed.

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mrs. chinaski
@ yurble:

I don't know.
I think if there is a combo of a CF woman and a man who wants to have kydz,
it depends on how strong is his drive is.
When he wants to be father really badly, he will leave.
But a man who wants to have kydz really badly is IMO an exception.
I believe that most men are indifferent.

I read on the internet the following facts:
20% women are childless, 20% couples are childless (different sources).
Based on this data, there are at least 20% men who don't have children.

I would say if here are more women than men, that means that women
have different needs in terms of communication and as you say, they
are more invested in this topic because of the society pressure.

Regarding what I have bolded here - this is not necessarily true and the man might resort to Reproductive Coercion.

It happened to me. I'm going to repeat this story as a PSA for our new people here ~

I was married briefly, in my late 20s. I had 2 BS degrees by then and had all sorts of future school and work plans, and was CRYSTAL CLEAR that I would NOT be having any kids.

To keep this brief - he was OK with all this - until he got his hooks into me. And then various controlling behavior started ~
And then talk of kids started ~
And when I kept dismissing all of this, and not 'knuckling under' on any of it - he literally tried to RAPE ME to get me pregnant!

We were 'in the midst' of 'it' - when I noticed there was NO condom. I said something and he said 'in a minute'. I repeatedly protested and that's when he *held me down*. Or, attempted to - I'm around 5 foot 10 and 150 lbs, and I have always been in excellent shape and even played semi pro sport (Tennis) - so I was quite muscular. And wasn't going to take 'in a minute' for an answer - and threw him off of me.

The memory of all this is starting to fade, thankfully, but IIRC - there was some argument at the time, which carried over into the next day.
Another thing he often tried to do was to ply me with liquor. Aha, but again - I come from a looooong line of drunkards and I've got more mass than is readily apparent and I can tolerate booze. Another thing that never really raised a flag for me - because hey, it's Saturday Night - let's have a few.

But - he was trying to get me drunk on purpose. And yes I had been drinking when 'this incident' occurred. But I was not stupid drunk, in fact close to sober, and I could tell what he was trying to do.

And there was confrontation *right then* but it was poo poo'd and brushed off by him, he said I was being irrational or something ("Gaslighting") and it was avoided right at that time - but the next day - Boy Howdy did we HAVE IT OUT! This is, in fact, when I left him. I have a HOT temper and I am not stupid, and it was dawning on me - all the 'little things' were adding up. So we had it out, big argument. And he confessed that he'd wanted kids all along and thought I would "change my mind".

This was attempted RAPE right here, with the SOLE PURPOSE of trying to knock me up - because I'd already consented to sex, I never turned him down for sex, he never had issues with condoms, either - so there is only one conclusion that can be drawn here.

Let me tell you this, too - I met a new friend here (in this area I moved to a few years ago) - and she is very similar to me. We could be twins, ha. And the same thing happened to her! For awhile I was thinking - how weird, how alike we are, and even had similar experiences. But now, the more I have read up on "Reproductive Coercion" - it's not an odd coincidence at all - what it is is that this behavior on the part of men is more common than people know.

Many men are lazy. Too lazy to go look for the Wanna Moo of their dreams. And if they have one woman they want - they want to make her into the Stepford Wife of their dreams. Think of how many men 'can't let go' - and then proceed to stalk and possibly kill (aforementioned friend also had another guy stalking her - and he too wanted kids with her.) My exH showed up here once too - I wouldn't class him as a 'stalker' - but, it's 10 years later - move ON already!

Keep in mind too - the man may not want kids so much as he wants to keep the woman controlled. Via kids. There are so many stories out there about this - it's stunning. I know of several others myself, things people have told me, but I'm trying to keep brief here.
It's alot more prevalent than you think. Just look online - there are so many tales of this.

"But a man who wants to have kydz really badly is IMO an exception."

I disagree. MANY men want kids, they also seem quite interested in the "Suburban Lifestyle" - and also having a Mommy Wife, and they may not be interested in kids so much as they are interested in controlling the woman via kids.

I'm trying to think of some other blurb I read recently - it might have been some topic about "Mama's Boys" or something like that, I forget where I saw this, some guy going on about how he "loves his son's mother" - alot of men have a Mommy fetish and they want a Mommy Wife.

I have also read, not much, but I'm seeing it more and will maybe try to research it - Point is - there also seems to be many men out there who are looking to take strong and accomplished women 'down a peg'. Some just want to shout down the "Feminazis" - others hope to marry them and impregnate them and make them a Moo.

One tie in to this mindset are the ones you see after a Strong / Accomplished woman who says she's CF - (talking online here) - you see comments after that with people opining that - "You'd make the best Mother". As well as what I call "Smart Shaming" - where people bleat that Smart / Educated women SHOULD have kids / we owe it to the 'gene pool' or 'society' or something. IMO these type of thoughts are sim, or maybe fall under the umbrella of - taking accomplished women 'down a few notches'. And / or they ought to be used as Breeding Stock.

This is long and I'll wrap it up. I feel these issues need to be highlighted, esp. for our newer and younger members here. WATCH YOUR STEP. The Babby Rabid man often does NOT leave looking for a potential Moo - he often tries to coerce the woman he's got. It is clear by my last thought here - those trying to coerce 'smart women' or even those adamantly CF by saying they'd "make good Moos".

This is attempted coercion. That's it and that's all. And it is rampant.
I began to read about this "Reproductive Coercion" and I was shocked at how prevalent this is.

Again, sorry for the length of this but I feel this is important. Be very careful with who you get involved with, there are many liars out there, and those running hidden agendas.

@ Studio54: I didn't say it was correct, it isn't :-)

After some googling I found this:
Norwegia: The share of men who are childless at age 45 rose from 14 percent in 1985 to 23 percent in 2013.
Australia: The percentage who are childless in the 45-59 years age group is higher for men
(12.8%) than for women (9.5%).

Again, these figures also don't say much...

@ Zzelda: Your whole post is downright SCARY! Too much reality at once....

I was not familiar with the concept "Reproductive Coercion".
After reading about it, I think we are both right.

"A man who wants to have kydz really badly is IMO an exception" --> it is so even when we
take the "Reproductive Coercion" into account because as you correctly state
the Reproductive Coercion is about controlling the woman via kids.
So kydz are not the ultimative goal, they are a mere byproduct; means for the purpose.

The way I understand it - the ultimative goal is to make "somehow" sure that the other
person cannot go away. As slavery is illegal, the only thing that remains is a kyd.

A man can controll the woman by making her a moo. In that way he and the woman
will be connected "forever" or at least for the next 18 years or so. She becomes
"damaged goods" on some level as she has now baggage with her and her body
may be ruined due to pregnancy/-cies. In comparison with her previous CF state, her options are now limited.
That's the reason many moos put up with DH horrible behaviour - not many options left in life

But the issue is more complex than that.