Help!!!

twocents she did say she was 28, in learning nursing..

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

mea culpa brandy, 28... nevertheless... I would beware of this
The kiddie is a deal breaker. I don't really care that everything else seems good.... That red flag may very well come back and bite.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

Miss Brandy, you may want to rethink this relationship. He has kids and is always being asked to give more in support. I do not fault anyone for being with the person he or she loves but I as a childfree woman stopped going with dads long ago. I had a brief relationship with a man with one college-aged son before I married my husband. I know how my life and needs would be secondary if I were to have married a divorced father. The ex-wife would always be an issue even if she was a nice lady and the divorce had been amicable. The exes are bound for life because of the kids. People involved with parents do have to deal with the children. There is issue of discipline. Are you willing to deal with being a stepmother? If you two do marry or live with one another, are you willing to possibly have to pay more expenses because the father has had his child support raised? Many men and women with children look to a good earner and a person with no kids when they are seeking mates. My religion has divorced men wanting a wife who has never been married or with children because the man is looking for a caretaker. Clematis was smart to divorce this man and get rid of that stepson. I have been married before but am glad I became more picky about men as I got older.

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twocents
A) He has a six month girl. I will presume you've known him for 6 mos or less. THIS IS WAY TOO SHORT A TIME TO KNOW SOMEONE REALLY WELL. On that note I would say wait.
He should be occupied solely with raising that kid imo. I know people here may not like that point of view, but once he's created a life, he is obligated to that child and his responsibility is to raise said child. If he is going to be involved in that childs life you WILL BE INVOLVED WITH THAT CHILD AND THE EX-GIRLFRIEND/MOO. Step outside of your hormones, take a step back and imagine your life involving that child and that ex girlfriend. I get the 'feeling' from your post that you are young. Very young, I would guess @ 21 give or take.
What you are experiencing is just .. emotion. And that is tremendously lacking in common sense. Unless the guy is a total wacko and sociopathic actor, it takes a year and a half AT LEAST for the masks to come off and the true character to emerge. Plus, if you ARE 21 or so, you both are not totally mature. People change and they are different at 27, 28 then when they were 20, 21.
I am 55 years old and I have had plenty of experience over the past decades of watching trainwrecks like this progress.
YOU DO NOT REALLY KNOW THIS MAN: at this point I hope you are NOT screwing around with him because that establishes bonds you do not want at this point. Women tend to nest and want stability. Most males (and I think this is a male, not a man) are just looking to get in some females pants.
let the flames begin....

Yeah I really did sound really young and naive in the original post so I apologize. Um no I have not slept with him (thank goodness) because I have only known him for four months. I am usually know for running the other direction when a man mentions kyds. I wasn't looking for a commitment until I met him. I have never felt this way about a man before especially so quick. I am not known for being emotional and naive so this is a scary situation for me. He is coming over tonight. I will have to break up with him because I don't want the added stress in my life especially since I am in nursing school.

concentrate on your career, then once you have that settled, when you are comfortable, then keep it light until you have passed your exams.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

The smart course of action is always to play the odds. That being said, this isn't what I've always done. Sometimes playing against the odds pays out, but it's not the smartest thing to do.

Odds are you won't be happy in a relationship with children so the smart play is to avoid one.

Ex-wives/girlfriends are often problems. If there's kids... you're signing up for the next airing of Jerry Springer. Nothing but trouble there.

Getting married or getting into a relationship with children is statistically bad for higher education. Finish school, then decide the personal stuff. The odds of finishing college after you get married are abysmal.

I can only echo what has been said...there really is hardly anything positive that can come out of dating a childed person - especially a man. You may have chemistry, but I guarantee it will fade once he's got you playing Mommy...a lot of guys who are childed are out looking for a mother for their kids, and when he hears you say you do not want kids, he probably just figures that means hi kid won't need to compete with yours for attention, gifts or money.

And discipline is a huge one...when the kid gets mobile and gets into trouble or breaks shit, are you prepared to hear "You're not my real mom!" any time you try to stop bad behavior? If the child is female, are you ready to have to compete with her for her daddy's attention? You do not want kids, but are you willing to take care of the kid? And yes...are you willing to deal with the drama and headaches the bio mother is basically guaranteed to cause? These things can happen during the dating process, and they worsen during marriage. Step-parent relationships are notorious for being awful.

It's good that he wants to get snipped, but he's doing so one child too late. You can try and test the childed waters to see if having a kid in the picture is a big enough hindrance to call it quits, but there is really hardly anything good to ever come out of a CFer dating a parent.

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CFBrandy

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twocents
A) He has a six month girl. I will presume you've known him for 6 mos or less. THIS IS WAY TOO SHORT A TIME TO KNOW SOMEONE REALLY WELL. On that note I would say wait.
He should be occupied solely with raising that kid imo. I know people here may not like that point of view, but once he's created a life, he is obligated to that child and his responsibility is to raise said child. If he is going to be involved in that childs life you WILL BE INVOLVED WITH THAT CHILD AND THE EX-GIRLFRIEND/MOO. Step outside of your hormones, take a step back and imagine your life involving that child and that ex girlfriend. I get the 'feeling' from your post that you are young. Very young, I would guess @ 21 give or take.
What you are experiencing is just .. emotion. And that is tremendously lacking in common sense. Unless the guy is a total wacko and sociopathic actor, it takes a year and a half AT LEAST for the masks to come off and the true character to emerge. Plus, if you ARE 21 or so, you both are not totally mature. People change and they are different at 27, 28 then when they were 20, 21.
I am 55 years old and I have had plenty of experience over the past decades of watching trainwrecks like this progress.
YOU DO NOT REALLY KNOW THIS MAN: at this point I hope you are NOT screwing around with him because that establishes bonds you do not want at this point. Women tend to nest and want stability. Most males (and I think this is a male, not a man) are just looking to get in some females pants.
let the flames begin....

Yeah I really did sound really young and naive in the original post so I apologize. Um no I have not slept with him (thank goodness) because I have only known him for four months. I am usually know for running the other direction when a man mentions kyds. I wasn't looking for a commitment until I met him. I have never felt this way about a man before especially so quick. I am not known for being emotional and naive so this is a scary situation for me. He is coming over tonight. I will have to break up with him because I don't want the added stress in my life especially since I am in nursing school.

Classy lady. Good luck, it won't be easy. No matter how much we think we are 'logical, thinking' it is hard to get rid of feelings. It is n.o.r.m.a.l.
There will be a period of , angst, to use the term loosely. Take care... and stick to your guns.

two cents ¢¢

CERTIFIED HOSEHEAD!!!

people (especially women) do not give ONE DAMN about what they inflict on children and I defy anyone to prove me wrong

Dysfunctional relationships almost always have a child. The more dysfunctional, the more children.

The selfish wants of adults outweigh the needs of the child.

Some mistakes cannot be fixed, but some mistakes can be 'fixed'.

People who say they sleep like a baby usually don't have one. Leo J. Burke

Adoption agencies have strict criteria (usually). Breeders, whose combined IQ's would barely hit triple digits, have none.

and you have us to moan at, and grumble at.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

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mercurior
you have to follow what you know is true. if you know in your heart of hearts that you do not ever want kids, and never want to be with someone with kids. then follow your heart.

you say "I do not want to date a man with kids", he has kids so theres your answer.

the fact he questions you about having kids several times, could be seen as a ploy to persuade you to have kids.

if you married him, would he spend more time with his kid than with you.

Bears repeating - with the addition of how much time would that child be involved in your life?

I missed this topic somehow until now. I have personal experience with this as I served a rather long sentence as a FULL TIME stepmoo, and it was the worst mistake of my life. You need to back away from this man as fast as you can and leave no forwarding address or call back numbers. I spy four red flags right off the bat. 1)He claims he is CF, yet he knocked up a breeder 2)He has already left her before her coochie stitches healed up, niiiice. 3) Why is he talking vasectomy NOW instead of before? Why is he so concerned about YOUR fertility or wanting (or not) kyds when it's apparent HE is the one who spreading his seed? and 4)He is trying to claim it isn't his kyd, which is a cheap shot that his ex was a slut, which probably isn't true. The kyd is VERY LIKELY his and it was VERY LIKELY more than "just that once" when he was drunk too and likely won't be the last time he screws her, assuming he has ever stopped. If you can find reasons to rationalize any of that, then I would appeal to your likely fear of future horror of stepmoohood and baybee mama drama.m



Your lives will NEVER be your own, regardless if exmoo gets a new boyfriend, remarries, or moves. As long as she has his kid, she will be in your lives. Be prepared for phone calls of the utmost URGENT importance and having to cut weekend trips short just in time to come see Shitleigh get released from the hospital for a sprained ankle, or an asthma attack, or a cat scratch. Be prepared for numerous little secret "famblee get togethers", with the exmoo, HER parents, and YOUR husband, which you will be indelicately UNinvited. These often take place when the kyd is exchanged and granted, he will be caught off guard, but will sit there for the famblee portait ANYWAY and then tell YOU that you are over reacting. Even when it's plain to see that he should have stood up LIKE A MAN and said, "The Mrs is waiting for me/us at home, we will take pics of her THEN, he will never admit it and blame YOU for "not understanding the chyllld's needs", or of being jealous. It will be "for the chyld's sake" that they have a famblee Thanksgiving (without you) and pictures and everything, "for the sake of the chylld". He will exclaim (upon being found out)" It wasn't REALLY a lunch, just because the table was set and a turkey was in the middle of it. They were just being polite, I hardly even ate, you are over reacting AGAIN!". He will be expected to come to funerals of HER famblee, because afterall it IS precious Shitleigh's uncle TOO who died and she "needs her daddy" There are literally THOUSANDS of reasons for him and his ex to have to be together "alone" for "the sake of Shitleigh", and they will continue to sleep together, of that you can be certain. :sx



If that isn't enough for you to dump the guy, then get ready to give up your own personal freedom, your formerly cherished off days and vacations, as well as much of your income which will go to that kyd AND her mother, directly AND indirectly, for years and years and years..................If you don't, or refuse to allow this, you will be called selfish, jealous, etc........and it will be the subject of MANY marital disputes until there is nothing left between you but hate, resentment, and hostility. Unless HE is paying all of the household bills AND the grocery bill out of his own pocket, you WILL be paying for his kyd, especially when she gets older. Pre-teen kyds (and older) not only will eat you out of house and home, they want pizzas, Wendy's, take out and delivery and will hit you up when you are the most vulnerable to get it. Now, I spend approx $300-400 on actual food for my husband and myself, but back when I was footing the food bill for a teenager, AND all of their spend the night friend-pigs, etc......My grocery bill was approx $1200 or more a month, and that was on a conservative month. In addition, kyds NEED things, bullshit things too like fruit roll ups, name brand toaster streudals, Juicy Juice, lunchables, etc.......and it is SHOCKING how much that bullshit costs. I won't even get into the clothes, hair, nail, club and lesson dues, jewelry, etc......that are part and parcel of a girl kyd.:sbx



Also, do NOT trust that you will only be a "part time" step parent. I signed up for a 1 1/2 days every other weekend and a few weeks here and there throughout the year, and ended up with the kyd FULL TIME, 24/7/365 and NO time off for good behavior. IT WAS THE WORST TIME OF MY LIFE. I am convinced that I know how it feels to be in prison. If he is a father, then full custody is ALWAYS a possibility. YOU will take care of that kid though, because his life won't change in the least. Look at him now, has HIS life been affected yet by the birth of this kyd in any REAL way? Maybe financially, but maybe even not that yet. He has had a new girlfriend for four months and the kid isn't even out of diapers. How often has he had her over at his place and solely takes care of her so far? My guess is that either he "visits" her at HIS parents, the ex WIFE'S place, or the ex wife's parent's place, but doesn't actually "take care" of her. I am sure he has a good excuse though like she is breastfeeding, his work schedule, etc..... NO MAN ever actually takes care of a kyd with any regularity, ESPECIALLY when there is a woman there to do it and if you marry him, YOU are "it" while that kyd is present, I promise.You will regret it the rest of your life with this man, and perhaps even longer, if you marry a man with an infant kyd. PLEASE just say no. It is NOT worth it.:smn




It's been 3 years since I finally left after raising said kyd from the ages of 2-16,(full time (official sentence served: SEVEN YEARS, although unoffically it was much longer ) and I have NOTHING but regrets over the whole damned thing, and she was a good kyd. It's the PARENTS who caused or allowed all of those problems, but if you marry one of them then sadly, you also marry the other AND all of the ex's famblee too. "for the sake of the chyld".

Just the thought of eventually having the mother show up with a pack and play, diaper bag, bottles and whatever other stuff is needed for the kid would make my hair stand on end and have me go into hiding.

I belong to another forum where a woman is dating a guy with two kids and she has endless drama with the ex-wife and his family. She puts up with so much crap that it's unbelievable that she's sticking around.

Imagine the times where you'll have to help watch the baby, change diapers and deal with tantrums, and that should be enough for you to realize that continuing the search for a CF man will really be worth it.

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CFBrandy
This really sucks because every guy I meet has kids. Usually when a man tells me that he has kids I run the other way. Oh I almost forgot to post that his family believes that the kid isn't even his. He and his ex wife moo had drunken sex before the divorce was final. So he got oopsed and he regrets it.

Hon, if there is one lesson you are learning here, it's the thing all of us on this board have known for years --

Single Duhd's LOVE and I mean LOVE childfree women. Much to the chagrin of moos. They will skirtchase cf gals with an unbridled passion, go out of their way for them, do everything for them they would NEVER do for the moos. Time and time again I have seen this, not just online, but in real life. How many cf women I have known that constantly attract the single duhds I have lost count.

There are many reasons for this. 1 being that you have no other commitments so you will be easy baby sitting material for their brats 2, you won't ever be costing them a dime in child support 3, you don't have a saggy cooter from childbearing 4, cf women are just sexier than moos... cause it's about SEX for the cf gal, not about babymaking

Everyone here is warning you. But I think before you throw the guy out the window, just cause you really like him, sit down and ask him why he did not have that vasectomy until now, and stress your childfree position very strongly, you are not interested in taking care of children, this is why you are cf. I agree with everything kim wrote here, but then i almost get from your posts you are broken hearted over this. Thing is, you have to realize this man is a no good breeder if he is not willing to put his child first in his life before anything else.

I'm with the others on here and there's not really much more I can add except: You deserve better. You are going to be a nurse. You're going to be someone who not only saves lives and helps to cure people, but also someone who makes the sick and injured feel comfortable and calm and make their sad lives worth living. You will be in huge demand as a date and a partner in future, and believe me, you will have your pick of good men.

You don't need damaged goods. And that's what mommies-on-the-make and daddies-on-the-make are: nothing but damaged goods. They will do and say ANYTHING to hook up with a CF'er (or anyone without children). That's what they ALL want. That's number-one top of their wish list. The reasons are obvious. Know this, next time a duhddie sidles up to you and tries to seduce you.

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"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

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However, he is a father. I do not want to date a man with kids.

So follow your own advice and don't do it.:/

So it may be hard, but it's best to nip it in the bud and instead get a man who shares EXACTLY your same feelings.

It's easier this way and besides, a widdle 6-month-old baybee may eventually seduce you to moohood in the very end.

If not, the duh will "oops" you for another baybee, no kidding. (If he didn't already get the snip.)

Thank you guys for your wise imput. I finally ended the relationship last night and it felt very liberating! I can't believe that I spent four months of my precious time with this guy:crz He tried to change my mind by telling me that he will get the snip. I just told him that I do not want to be a step mom...ever. He finally told me that he wants to get custody of his daughter because his ex wife is psycho. I am so glad I got out of that situation because I do not need any baby mama drama. Whew... time to go out, and shake my ass.

an ex psycho wife.. how psycho, one thing you can say is it made you absolutely sure of your cf status, and wont let other things stop that.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

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CFBrandy
Thank you guys for your wise imput. I finally ended the relationship last night and it felt very liberating! I can't believe that I spent four months of my precious time with this guy:crz He tried to change my mind by telling me that he will get the snip. I just told him that I do not want to be a step mom...ever. He finally told me that he wants to get custody of his daughter because his ex wife is psycho. I am so glad I got out of that situation because I do not need any baby mama drama. Whew... time to go out, and shake my ass.

I am SO happy for you!:bal



I would like to add that when they say that their ex is a psycho and that's why they are seeking custody, it is a GREAT BIG HUGE RED FLAG. I have known several divorced fathers who said the exact same thing, INCLUDING my ex husband. In the end what it boiled down to is that they simply did NOT want to pay child support, it's JUST that simple. The problem with that though is that they don't want to actually raise the kyd either. Basically, all of the men who I have known who "went for custody", ended up dumping the kyd off on grandmoos, aunts, uncles, neighbors, friends, and stepmoos when they had the chance and at every available opportunity. Sometimes, they would just leave the kyd for a day or two or maybe a weekend, and just NOT COME BACK. (until days later) I do not personally know of ONE SINGLE solitary man, be he single, married, divorced, or widowed, who has full, joint, or partial custody, who actively raises, takes care of, cleans up after, feeds, etc........his kyds WITHOUT help from a grandmoo, stepmoo, girlfriend, or hired help if and when he can afford it.


WTF is a lone young man going to do with a 6 month old infant 24/7? The whole idea is just absurd.

Psycho ex-wife, squalling brat 24/7? Good thing you are outa there.

Guys who want custody do not want the kid -- they just want to win.

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"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

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kidlesskim
I do not personally know of ONE SINGLE solitary man, be he single, married, divorced, or widowed, who has full, joint, or partial custody, who actively raises, takes care of, cleans up after, feeds, etc........his kyds WITHOUT help from a grandmoo, stepmoo, girlfriend, or hired help if and when he can afford it.

I know one (1) guy like that. The exception that proves the rule.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

I am SO happy for you!:bal



I would like to add that when they say that their ex is a psycho and that's why they are seeking custody, it is a GREAT BIG HUGE RED FLAG. I have known several divorced fathers who said the exact same thing, INCLUDING my ex husband. In the end what it boiled down to is that they simply did NOT want to pay child support, it's JUST that simple. The problem with that though is that they don't want to actually raise the kyd either. Basically, all of the men who I have known who "went for custody", ended up dumping the kyd off on grandmoos, aunts, uncles, neighbors, friends, and stepmoos when they had the chance and at every available opportunity. Sometimes, they would just leave the kyd for a day or two or maybe a weekend, and just NOT COME BACK. (until days later) I do not personally know of ONE SINGLE solitary man, be he single, married, divorced, or widowed, who has full, joint, or partial custody, who actively raises, takes care of, cleans up after, feeds, etc........his kyds WITHOUT help from a grandmoo, stepmoo, girlfriend, or hired help if and when he can afford it.


WTF is a lone young man going to do with a 6 month old infant 24/7? The whole idea is just absurd.[/quote]
Well this guy is very good looking so I doubt he will have trouble finding a sucker. Kim you are so right about single dad who actively participates in raising a kyd without outside help. Just to think if I would have married him I would have to do all the grunt work of moo-hood, and spend my own money on the kid:smn um no thanx. I rather stay single and happy than raising someone elses kyd just to keep a mayunn.

What the hell happen to my page. That was weird.

the original quote command didnt show.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

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poofy_puff

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kidlesskim
I do not personally know of ONE SINGLE solitary man, be he single, married, divorced, or widowed, who has full, joint, or partial custody, who actively raises, takes care of, cleans up after, feeds, etc........his kyds WITHOUT help from a grandmoo, stepmoo, girlfriend, or hired help if and when he can afford it.

I know one (1) guy like that. The exception that proves the rule.

Yes he IS the exception and what a rarity. Men are smarter than women when it comes to this nonsense because they absolutely will NOT do it, and they aren't expected to either. I know PLENTY of divorced women with children who go out of their ways to keep their husbands from having to do anything "extra" for their kyds. They wouldn't DREAM of heaving a pile of kiddie laundry at their husbands, just come home whenever the fuck they wanted and expect him to have bathed and fed HER kyds, or just up and announce she is going on a "girl's weekend" and automatically assume that he wouldn't mind staying at home and baybee sitting HER kyds. Turn it around though and that is EXACTLY what men do who allegedly have "custody". THEY don't have custody, their WIVES do. They dump those kyds off on stepmoo when they aren't with bio-moo, and live their lives as if they are single and don't have a care in the world. When called out on it, they get defensive and accusatory and drag out some old cliches that are designed to foster guilt. It ends up one of three ways. 1)Stay with it, make the best of it and count the minutes until the kyd finally leaves home 2)Fight about it and live a life of constant turmoil that the kyd has to see, or 3)Just leave. Any three of those causes resentment and hatred so the BEST answer is what Brandy did, "JUST SAY NO", AND NIP IT IN THE BUD.


Any emotional pain over the "nip it in the bud" break up PALES in comparison to what will follow if the marriage actually takes place. I have had an abscessed tooth and a pancreatic condition to flare up that was SO painful I didn't think I could live through it. Neither one of those was as horrific as ONE WEEK of that bullshit. If I had to choose, I'd pick a gall bladder attack requiring hospitalization and emergency surgery before I would go back and relive an hour of that nonsense.:hs

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kidlesskim

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poofy_puff

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kidlesskim
I do not personally know of ONE SINGLE solitary man, be he single, married, divorced, or widowed, who has full, joint, or partial custody, who actively raises, takes care of, cleans up after, feeds, etc........his kyds WITHOUT help from a grandmoo, stepmoo, girlfriend, or hired help if and when he can afford it.

I know one (1) guy like that. The exception that proves the rule.

Yes he IS the exception and what a rarity.

First of all, I don't agree that people should have so many kids. He has twins from a previous relationship (boy and girl, and they live WITH him and "visit" their Moo, who btw IS a psycho-bitch), and 2 with his wife, and they still want a ton more. However, the wife is a chemical engineer and the primary breadwinner for the family. The guy LOVES being a SAHD (he also does a little side-work in carpentry), and he used to work as a chef, so he makes food that is SO yummy and full of good stuff. Their house is not spic-and-span, but neither is mine with all the cats. I think if JUST people like these would breed and NOBODY else, the human race would be a lot better off. But he is one of those folks that is all, "I came from a large family, so I want to HAVE a large family", and last time I went to his house, he tried to hand me a one-year-old, like it was the most usual thing. I was like, "WTF? My hands are full." This is one of my DH's best friends, and what they do doesn't interfere with my enjoyment, so I go easy on them.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu