#1464 -- Starting over...

CF Scorpio, you said it well. The behaviour of Westen women isn't driving Western men to look elsewhere. It's sexism and oversimplification about people who live in other parts of the world. If people could travel to other countries and be more open.... Many Americans never set foot in another country. People are materialistic all over the world. Ain't nothing new. Every religious text throughout history warns against being materialistic. I think some of these men (not all, they may have found true love) are looking for a way to have a slave -- legally.

i would disagree nour, a lot of western women are driving men off. if you think that men are slime, and you treat them like that, men will avoid you. thats how men think.

(i am lucky to have fallen in love with a western woman, who is in every way my partner, i had given up due to the fact that all the other women i knew before used me, faust doesnt, faust is completley real, not artificial like a lot of western women. )


Popular Myth: Western men looking for foreign wives are only seeking subservient slaves.

Truth: Most Western men today are evolved and modern and truly believe in the 50/50 system. Most Western men are dismayed by the lack of sincerity of Western women. I can do my own laundry and cooking thank you!

Yes, Latin American and Eastern European women do make better mates because both come from more conservative and family oriented cultures where relationships and commitment are actually revered.



*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

You know, I'm getting kind of steamed about folks using words like feminism without any sort of consideration for what it means. Simply speaking the goal of "Feminism" is equality between the genders. Just beause some SAHM mother votes, drives, wears pants and CALLS herself a feminist, doesn't actually make it so. Just because some man wears a ponytail, supports his girlfriends right to an abortion as long as she's not pregnant, and donates money to planned parenthood doesn't make him a feminist either. Do not let people get away with making up their own definitions for already existing words. War is not peace, feminism is not more rights for moms, and masculinity is not mysogony.

Lumping all folks into one group doesn't help either party involved. Just because a certian proportion of the western female world has an inflated sense of entitlement, and a desire for MORE rights than other folks doesn't mean that ALL western women are that way. (And it still doesn't make them feminists) If a fellow seeks a mate from another country, there may be alot of deep personal issues that go into that, and not simply "i don't like them uppity white bitches, a nice (enter the country of your choice) lady will love me long time".

The problem with assuming everyone who appears a certian way is going to behave a certian way is that you end up setting YOURSELF up for the wonders of Self Fufilling Prophecy. If you feel all white women only want you for your money, sperm, booboo, then you'll end up treating all white women you come across like they only want to get paid. When you treat a woman like a shallow whore who only wants to get paid, you can almost guarentee that she'll either act that way, or tell you to take a hike, thusly fufilling your own expectations because she'll either take your money, or leave you which will be read as "she only wanted me for moeny and I didn't have enough". Try it sometime, go to a customer service counter with a bad attitude expecting the service person to be a jerk. In most cases, with that attitude, you will treat them like the jerk you expect them to be and they will end up being a jerk, or you will end up walking away from the interaction thinking they're a jerk inspite of what they do.

exactly feh, i am only saying what a fair few men feel and think, i love my faust. people think feminism is the modern and the equalitist ones of the 60's.

but nothing is more different between the 2, i am all for equality, so long as it is equality, its the modern 2nd or 3rd wave ones that are the problem, and causes real women like the majority of the cf the problems with men, as they see feminist must be modern entitlement bitches. rather than equalists.

i know men who have fallen foul of these entitlement bitches and they believe all women or 99.9% of women are which is wrong, these bitches have ruined it for the rest. thats why men are looking elsewhere.

i adore and worship my faust, she is a rarity, as are a lot of the cf. if these men would just stop and think then there would be no problems, and if the culture isnt aimed at creating more entitlement bitches, that would help and everyone could be treated the same.. as it should be.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I wouldn't marry a modern 'career' western woman for any reason. They are the bottom of the barrel marriage-wise. Mostly, they are self-centered, sex-withholding, gold-digging, bitter, snobby, using-feminism-as-a-reason-to-hate-men, hateful people. If they were my only choice, forget about marriage. Check out www.nomarriage.com. Wonderful information.

Edited by Admin 06-01-06

Well that's the thing though...I can name a woman who has been taken by a man for every man you could name who has been taken by a woman. My own dear father screwed around behind my mom's back for years before she found out and gave him the boot. I have a friend who got married right out of high school to her "one true love" who then knocked her up 3 times in 4 years and then high tailed it out of her life, and she thought he wanted kids. I talk to men every day who steadfastly refuse to use a condom, even to protect themselves, because "it doesn't feel right" or it's not manly.

Mainstream culture teaches us that a woman's only value is in her looks and her ovaries. Mainstream culture also teaches us that a man's only value is in how many chicks he can bag, and how much money he makes. If a person can not take what this culture serves up with a grain of salt, or doesn't have the choice to learn about "non mainstream culture", it will be impossible for them to overcome what they've been taught, because they don't know anything else.

Relationships? Here's my story. I've been in love 4 times in my life. The first time was beautiful, I fell in love with a caring, gentle, trustworthy and kind young man. When that relationship ended, the next two ended up being horrible, controling, cheating, abusive assholes. When I met my current SO I almost destroyed it with my constant expectations, based on the two previous relationships, that he would eventually "turn evil" and hurt me. I had gotten it into my head that all men were awful, and I was being punished for breaking up with the one decent man in the world. Fortunately he is a patient and kind person, and we had a mutual male friend whose opinion I did trust who was decent enough to explain things from a "male point of view". After several months of "Feh, I'm not so-and-so", and "men's brains work different, Feh", I was able to relearn the fact that you should try to treat each person as an individual, even if they appear like all the other bitches/pricks who hurt you in the past.

yes exactly feh, but its harder for us men to do, when we fall we fall HARD, and each time we get betrayed by any woman, it builds up and up to a dislike of all women, even me, before i met faust, i started not to care about women, they could all go hang themselves. i didnt need them, and they sure didnt need me. so i was just about to give up. then i met her..and i love her without reservation.

these men are otherwise decent men, who have had enough. it does a disservice to everyone, the manipulative bitches, and the dead beat men, it ruins it for the decent men and women about. its hard to relearn especially as the culture tv and social culture is demonising men, we get told we are worthless on tv worthless in real life so often that we beleive it, and we give up. thats why mens suicide rates are much higher than womens. we give up due to the culture of denigration of men.

blame the bad manipulative bitches for making men like that, blame the dead beat men for making women like that.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

When I was younger, I tried to meet all of the criteria set forth by modern, American Women. I wasn't rich, but I was hard-working and getting about just fine. I didn't want kids, but I was a 'nice guy'. We all know that modern, American Women don't go for that. What they do go for is still a mystery. Money? Of course, but there must be more to it. The conclusion I finally came to was profound, and I believe many men have reached it, even if they cannot pinpoint it. In a nutshell, it is very simple. If you are a guy over 35 looking to meet and marry a single, modern American Woman around your age (30-40), just give up. Those single women generally fall into these categories:

(1) They are single because they want to be, and have no interest in marriage.
--OR--
(2) They are psychotic and there is a serious mental flaw in there somewhere.
--OR--
(3) If they're still single at 30-40, and actually WANT marriage, BELIEVE ME ON THIS ONE, their expectations are so HIGH that YOU are not what they are holding out for.

That's it. Simple and elegant. Those categories served me well.

Santen...I have a hard time believing you aren't some kind of troll who is just baiting me, but I'll bite anyway, BECAUSE I'M PSYCHO THAT WAY! MUHAHAHAH!
Oh no, it couldn't possibly be you going into a relationship assuming your partner is psychotic for being single in the first place. It must be all those crazy bitches faults, because they're psychotic. I mean, when you assume someone is crazy from the start, and then they tell you to take a hike, that only proves you're right. Right? RIGHT!

1. Single by choice with no interest in marrage. Um okay. Granted there are some women who aren't interested in marrage after all it is a falsely constructed scam to get you to spend money on bullshit. However, it also gets you all kind of approval from society and tax benefits when you get married to the person you're having sex with. Women aren't supposed to ask men to marry them and lots of men aren't into marrage either.

2. Psychotic with a serious mental flaw. And your PHD in human psychology comes from where? And you know the minds of all unmarried women between the ages of 30 and 40 how? Do you think that maybe when you assume a unmarried woman who is around your age to be psychotic from the start might put a smallish damper on your relationship? Naw, that couldn't possibly be it. The voices in my head tell me people love it when someone they're interested in assumes they're psychotic.

3. High expectations. You seem to have set your bar so low, that all unmarried women of a certian age are psychotic, so anyone you find who isn't psychotic has set their expectations too high for you.

Anyway, I'm glad your categories have served you so well and you've found happiness in being alone. As is often said, "hell is other people."

#2

Nour, you are absolutely correct how materialism and bad behavior from men & women are in all cultures. I know of an overseas wife from Singapore who spends her husband's money like it is going out of style nor does she work. Despite her spouse taking a pay decrease after having to change jobs due to outsourcing, the Asian wife still spends, spends, spends as well as wasting money on Lotto. The American husband is always having to talk to her like a child about this issue. She also buys $30 designer lipstick so she can wear fancy grease on her lips. None of this was learned from Western women since she hangs with "her own".

Yes, there are LOTS of Americans who also engage in such wastefulness of their husbands' hard-earned money despite his pleas for them to stop it. If these American men want to look elsewhere, that is their choice just as it was my choice years ago to be involved with a man from the Far East. I got a lot of flack a few American men...and women, too...for going with "that" foreigner. One thing I learned was that this fellow was no better in character than "my own" people. I am into Eastern spirituality where we find value in a simple life yet the some women from that part of the world (India), where I attended Hindu services, do show off fancy clothing, jewelry, and cars all paid for by the men in their lives.

People are basically the same all over the world. A lot of men complain about stay-at-home wives or the wives who work a little part-time job due to financial issues. However, they don't want to do anything to help around the home if the lady does have her own career and contributes more than enough to the household. Marriage is not for everyone. The fellow with the long name has a right to stay away from American women because he is doing himself and the women a favor. No need to purposely be miserable if another path is desired in life.

india_darshen, you are so right. I have always thought it was mostly "American" women, but I'm hearing more and more that it's the same everywhere. How sad. And, to Feh, you're right too, I don't have a PhD, but one doesn't need that to form an opinion. Opinions are just that, and mine comes from the sum total of my experiences. I have found that modern, American 'career' women just don't seem to be very nice, unless you have lots of money. And maybe 'psychotic' was the wrong word, but it just seems like there is always something really weird about the women that don't fall in to categories 1 or 3. (For example, Prozac / Zoloft / Bulimia / Anorexia / crystal worship / daddy hangups / dangerous behavior / strung out / workaholic / alchoholic / 31 cats / 6 kids by 5 men / etc. ) I am not judging them, but these are things I don't necessarily want in my life. But again, that's just my experience. I listed my categories for all to read and enjoy. If they help some guy, great. If not, well that's okay too. Don't get all bent out of shape just because one person (me) has formed the opinion that modern, 'career' American women are unmarryable. It's just one person's experience and opinion, and nothing more.

I am in agreement with you, Santenzubenelgenubi. I admit...I did a cut & paste for your name... :spin

Your experiences are very valid and I understand any anger because I have been there myself. Our experiences are worth a lot because what happens to us does form our opinions on these and other matters. As a female, I can attest how there are many career women who are not very nice to others due to their snobbiness. I left a religious community - the Liberal Catholic Church - due to this: one snobby career woman and a snobby upper-crust SAHM, both who looked down on me and made underhanded comments directed at me.

These people at the LCC were not nice to me because I do not have a lot of money. I drove an old Ford where the power windows on the driver's side did not work, the a/c blew up, and it was just a plain ol' eyesore! I have don't have a career but support myself in what some would call "just a job in a call center". These women looked at me and then would brag about their new cars, expensive drinking outings, and would talk of how they wanted even more money to do more things. I stopped going about two months ago after the career woman made her last nasty comment to me. The priest was nice but he had to cater to these people for the donations.

I would be a liar if I said it did not bother me because I would not be mentioning this experience if I was "okay with it".

Santenzubenelgenubi, it is sad how this behavior is worldwide. Just as I used to think children in other countries were better behaved, the myth of women being "better" from the Far East was shattered. I was lucky to be able to go to Europe a couple of years ago with my mom. She got low-priced airfare and works for a hotel so the rooms were free. European kids were just as bratty! I also heard from the friend with the wife from Singapore how her own SISTER tried to make a play at one of her other sister's American husband during a trip "back home". This sister was looking to snag her own sister's husband for herself. Talk about low! Man...even I was shocked since I had ASSuMEd that this was only American Woman Behavior!

Santenzubenelgenubi, there are a lot of women out there who don't give a shit whether a guy has money or not. (I never have. I've dated guys who were flat broke and unemployed.)
Why are you only meeting the women who do care about money? Could it be that YOUR standards are too high?
I didn't get married til I was 39. All the men I met who were my own age were either:

1) complete and utter nerds (I've had nerdy boyfriends and actually LIKE nerds, but I'm talking guys with NO social skills)
2) players who "didn't want relationahips" and dated several women at once
3) VERY picky: only dated really skinny women in their 20s. (I'm a nice-looking woman, but apparently not good enough for the picky guys).

What was I looking for in a man? Someone whom I had chemistry with, who was intelligent, treated me nice, was interesting to talk to, and wanted a relationship. CF would have been nice, but I ended marrying a dad. You can't be TOO picky.

"Players" do not bother me as long as they are totally honest with the women and accept the same from the ladies. Too often, many "players" want the women to only see THEM while they leave their options open. I have dealt with that and was angry that the fellow acted like I was some dirty sl*t for suggesting that we keep things "open" when I realized he was still looking at other options aka other women. Not all relationships end up being one-on-one or forever. Despite attempting an "open" thing once years ago only to get shot down by the "player" who wanted it only for himself (mentioned above), I've never done the "more than one man" thing well. And...I do not have time for multiple partners even if that was my desire.

Unfortunately, I'll admit my one childfree close friend is a SERIOUS gold digger. She's a good friend and all, but I don't approve of the standards she sets for men: if you're not rich, don't bother.

On the flip side, I have a now-female transgender friend who is really trying to find her way in the world as we know it - and as a female. She had surgery a year ago and is still trying to figure out the kind of man she wants.

I see from the responses I've gotten that even if people don't agree with me (which is fine), at least I have struck a nerve. CF Scorpio even privided a similar 3-category system for men. That is fantastic, and I totally agree with it also. Make all the categories you want, they're your experiences. Folks, I'm not trying to offend or upset anyone, I've just shared my experiences. If you want a humerous look at male-female relations, there is a cool website called www.laddertheory.com. The bottom line of that person's theories is that men will get the best looking woman he can afford, and that women will get the richest man her looks will afford. No, I don't totally agree with that, but it is someone else's experience, and it's kind of interesting. Peace everyone! And remember, we're all happily C.F. ! ! ! - Santenzubenelgenubi

I have one sil who is a serious gold digger. She refuses to get a job. If she DOES happen to get a job, it won't last long. She comes up with all the excuses in the world to NOT commit to something. Pathedic. Her dh works his ass off, she won't help him in return. She doesn't even watch her own DNA replica.

---

lab mom

What gets me is how many women will only choose a "nice guy" who may not have as much money once they find out that the rich man does not want them or has some stips such as not wanting to be a stepfather. I know of a woman -- but I will not say from where -- who did that when things did not go as she wanted with this millionaire from Hawaii. Gold-diggers of all cultures will "settle" when the guy with the bucks tell them to "get lost". It kills me how many decent men are stuck with such awful women. I want to say, "Don't you know you are second best with her but could have been 'first' with a good-hearted woman?"

Santenzubenelgenubi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
CF Scorpio even
> privided a similar 3-category system for men. That
> is fantastic, and I totally agree with it also.

Glad you liked it! You inspired me. :-P

india-darshan, I know very well with what you said. The dh can be very truely nice man, but has the most awful wife. Controlling to the very core. She will have a major fuss if she doesn't get *her* way.

---

lab mom

Hey everybody, I have a dating sob story too. Pull up a chair.

I went out into the dating world when I was about 18 with stars in my eyes. I dated here and there but couldn't meet anybody who was serious about a relationship and didn't like the fact that I was a virgin and wasn't going to put out. I left my home town and hoped it would get better. It didn't. It seemed no matter how nice I was, how pretty I made myself or how smart I was. I was just a doll to be tossed away when something "better" came along. Of course better was some airheaded bint who wouldn't threaten their male ego.

I was engaged for three years to someone I considered my best friend. I then learned he was nothing but a 40 year old child and was fast driving us into debt with his reckless spending habits. I kicked him out after he beat my little boy cat up because he had a UTI and peed on assholes gym bag.

I was single for a short time and then got back into the swing of things hoping being almost married would have smartened me up a bit and hopefully make myself a better partner.

I met a guy who had a lot in common with me and we dated, everything was great until I planned a nice three day weekend for us complete with steak and a stack of movies I wanted to share with him. He blew me off and didn't even bother to call. Another one did the same thing, I got dressed up, got my hair done and made tonkatsu. An hour after he was suppose to be there he calls, he decided getting drunk by himself was more fun than spending time with me.

The last straw came New Years Eve. I had planned on going out to dinner with a friend of mine who I had kind of been dating. I pick out a beautiful beaded frock I've been dying to wear. I get a call on my answering machine from him claiming his sister was sick and in the hospital. I would later learn he took out a woman he met on craigslist instead. I sat at home alone crying into my brisket and pot brownie. He never called again.

Thanks friend.

I have since given up. I'm smart, attractive and am a nice person but all that is not enough for the men of today. I don't know what they want and I don't care anymore for I am happier single. Often I think of becoming a golddigger just because I've put so much out in my life and have gotten nothing in return from men except for lies and deceit. At least I'll get something.

I'm not the only woman who is going through this, a lot of my female friends go through the exact same shit. They also have alot of offer but men are too stupid to see it.

So, if there's a women who is 30-40 and single maybe it's because they don't have time for such bullshit anymore.

I know I don't.

Hi Latrodectra:
What a sad story. Sorry you've gone through all that. I'm sure you read my three categories for women, and you don't fit any of them. Where were you (and women like you) 15 years ago, when I was looking? I swear---there were none like you, anywhere. I was good-looking and moderately successful, but women would not give me the time of day. Mostly, if I so much as smiled to them while out at lunch downtown, they would give me a snotty look, if I was lucky. Mostly, they just managed to look right 'through' me. The few I did go out with fell squarely in Category Two -- Prozac city. Many that I was interested in basically told me flat out that they wanted a big suburban house, three kids, jewlery, and MONEY. Even $100K a year wasn't near enough. As I said in my previous post about categories, I made up my mind to just give up. No one like you, and I mean NO ONE, was out there. Where do your type (nice) hide out, anyway? If I had simply smiled at you and said hello, would you have snubbed me? Do women still play 'hard to get' in this day and age? I am totally mystified. Anytime I categorize women in these 3 categories, someone nice like you steps up and proves me wrong. That is fine, only I have the feeling that if I was out there again, for whatever reason, nice ladies like you would, again, vanish off the face of the Earth.

Latrodectra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have since given up. I'm smart, attractive and am a nice person but all that is not enough for
> the men of today. I don't know what they want and I don't care anymore for I am happier single.
> Often I think of becoming a golddigger just because I've put so much out in my life and have
> gotten nothing in return from men except for lies and dieciet. At least I'll get something.
>
> I'm not the only woman who is going through this, a lot of my female friends go through the exact
> same shit. They also have alot of offer but men are too stupid to see it.
>
> So, if there's a women who is 30-40 and single maybe it's because they don't have time for such bullshit anymore.
>
> I know I don't.

Exact same thing here, Latrodectra - and I haven't even gone through half the crap you have. So big hugs to you. (And gawd, your poor baby cat! How can any human being do that? Pure evil.)

I am not a psycho, nor am I a heartless gold-digging career bitch. But, out of my last 3 "prospects", one was married and one was engaged. They just "forgot" to tell me. I won't be some cheap piece on the side, so I ended both relationships. But I get what you're saying, like "if you can't beat them, join them". What's the point of being such a good woman? No one gives a damn.

Medusa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But I get what you're saying, like
> "if you can't beat them, join them". What's the
> point of being such a good woman? No one gives a
> damn.

It may sound lame but I feel that it is important to me to be a good woman despite what I see out there with the gold-diggers and the controlling, nasty women who are married to nice men & how good women tend to be horribly mistreated. So what if certain fellows don't appreciate a decent lady. I know who I am as a person and will not lower myself to these other women's behavior.

Why would I not want be a gold-digger even if I would get "something"?

"Things" don't matter to me. Possessions will not make me happy. Nothing material will fill a void I may feel inside. Happiness has to come from within. The only new material thing that I feel is important to me at this time in my life is the newer car I got so I can work 14 miles from home and not worry if it will start when I get out of work at 1am. Public transportation is terrible in Central Florida! Other than that, I don't care about jewelry, presents, or getting $$$ out of a man.

I know a good man whose wife appreciates NOTHING and is always complaining. She is not an American woman so one would think she would appreciate the better life she got by coming over here...but she doesn't. She lives much better than she could have imagined even though Husband is not rich. She gets a lot of material things and trips "back home" but demands more vacations in the States with a lot of activities that do kill the budget. Yet, I did a lot for my spouse who seemed to appreciated nothing and spends extra $$$$ on himself while I struggled to get things paid.

Lactrodecta, what you went through is something that many of us cannot imagine even though I have been abused as a child and then by some men in my young adult life. However, the abusers will win if I become a nasty woman. I know how you feel because I would not want to marry again. All I can say is that things have not been easy and I am very jaded. For anonymity's sake, I do not want to say much more about that part of my present life.

Friend-with-long-name (sorry I did not do a cut & paste), it makes me sad to know what you have been through, too. You wanted kindness, caring, and companionship only to be told your salary was not good enough. It bothers me how my own gender would feel that they are to bid themselves to the highest bidder also known as the wealthiest man. Whatever happened to being content with a man with a good heart and kind actions?