Should public schools allow spanking as punishment?

Oh lordy...the comments. DEAR GOD, THE COMMENTS

http://now.msn.com/now/0314-flor ida-sch ool-spa nki ngs. aspx (remove spaces)

TL;DR: Florida, like eighteen other states still allows corporal punishment (a swift paddling, not a "beating" as some have put it, although I bet some of the little shits deserve it). Opponents argue that corporal punishment doesn't work. However, we know gentle discipline doesn't work either.

A few of the comments are actually well informed. Note that I wrote "a few." Most are mama grizzly types: "IF YOU TOUCH MY CHILD I WILL RIP YOU A NEW ASSHOLE I DON'T BELIEVE IN BEATINGS," a few are "back in my day, we had paddlings...and we thanked our teachers for it!" (I'm okay with the latter)

As inane as a bunch of the GD comments are, notice the rankings on the comments...a lot of thumbs down - and guess who seeded a bunch of the thumbs?



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michaela

"A child will make two dishes at an entertainment for friends, and when the family dines alone, the fore or hind quarter will make a reasonable dish, and seasoned with a little pepper or salt, will be very good boiled on the fourth day, especially in winter." -Jonathan Swift, A Modest Proposal

Yeah, if a teacher is allowed to hit a kid then they will at least STFU and let those who want to learn not have to deal with their bullshit.

My high school allowed paddling but the parents had to give permission.

My initial short answer is emphatically YES, but it needs to be regulated and rules set in place. For instance, there should be strict guidelines as to what "crime" constitutes corporal punishment and parental consent via a signed form at the beginning of the year. There also needs to be a designated third party paddler (s) and a reliable witness. The consequences for NOT receiving a paddling because the parents said no should be clear cut and understood and something more than an hour of detention, depending on the "crime". Paddling could get out of hand and not be fairly distributed and would be easy to manipulate WHO got paddled and for what and by whom if there aren't strict guidelines. This is how it went down in my Junior and High school and it isn't fair.

It was ALWAYS and only the boys who got the paddle and often times it was given in anger by a coach on the spur of the moment as a form of humiliation. If administered correctly and fairly, I don't have a problem with it. The real problem is that these little bastards aren't beaten enough at home. If they were, we wouldn't be having to hear about the schools doing it.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

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kidlesskim
My initial short answer is emphatically YES, but it needs to be regulated and rules set in place. For instance, there should be strict guidelines as to what "crime" constitutes corporal punishment and parental consent via a signed form at the beginning of the year. There also needs to be a designated third party paddler (s) and a reliable witness. The consequences for NOT receiving a paddling because the parents said no should be clear cut and understood and something more than an hour of detention, depending on the "crime". Paddling could get out of hand and not be fairly distributed and would be easy to manipulate WHO got paddled and for what and by whom if there aren't strict guidelines. This is how it went down in my Junior and High school and it isn't fair.

It was ALWAYS and only the boys who got the paddle and often times it was given in anger by a coach on the spur of the moment as a form of humiliation. If administered correctly and fairly, I don't have a problem with it. The real problem is that these little bastards aren't beaten enough at home. If they were, we wouldn't be having to hear about the schools doing it.

You are 100% correct. At first glance, I'm like "yes, beat the brats" because I was tortured in school by brats who didn't want to be there and would seek their amusement torturing me. But on the other hand, what is a "crime"? What deserves paddling? Writing with your left hand? Being 3 minutes late to class? People fuck up everything and never do what they are supposed to do. So I am a little concerned about giving people a paddle and letting them go out at it. Not to mention nowadays, the kid would probably take the paddle from the teacher and knock his or her teeth out with it.

After the day I had: Yes Yes Yes!!!!!

I agree that it should only be administered by a principal and only for serious rule infractions. If the school has a consistent progressive discipline plan, it would work. A progressive discipline plan is one where all teachers are told to give specific consequences for certain violations. For example, chewing gum: 1st infraction: verbal warning, 2nd infraction: detention, etc.

I don't believe in paddling a kid for gum chewing, a little bit of talking, nonconformity, or things like that. There also needs to be a distinction between discipline and academic problems. Not turning in homework or refusing to participate in class are academic problems that do not require corporal punishment. Serious insubordination, fighting, and bullying are offenses that, in my opinion, would warrant a meeting with the principal and his paddle.

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P.S. I'm so aggravated by some of the kids who have no consequences at home. I can see the frustrated looks on students' faces who want to learn.

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My mom used to make me pick out my own switch.

Do I believe in ass whippings? A resounding HELL YES! I am a firm believer in spare the rod, spoil the child.

Instill some fear into the little shits. Maybe the threat of a bruised arse might shape them a bit.

Anyone remember that kid Michael Faye who was caned in Singapore for vandalizing a judicials car? Never did it again (in that country) did he?? LOL.larious

In LA, I would vote for the use of thumbscrews and the rack for most of the shitbag brats in our school district.

I am 100% for parents being able to spank kids without the worry of the CPS coming. A well timed swat on the ass reduces a lot of bullshit.

but as the survivor of several years of severe abuse by teachers in the public school system (1980s).... I can't trust that other kids would not go through the same thing without legal recourse if this was allowed.

Not a fan of paddling kids. I'm more of a fan of consistent non-violent punishment and removing the kids who aren't there to learn.

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JayJay
Not a fan of paddling kids. I'm more of a fan of consistent non-violent punishment and removing the kids who aren't there to learn.

This. I'd rather the trouble makers and future criminals just be kicked out of school.

I was never hit as a kid and I turned out fine. Instead, I would get a long punishment that involved no TV and cleaning. Sometimes I wish I would have just been smacked instead and gotten it over with! But I guess since breeders don't punish their kids these days, maybe they do need a paddling.

Yes, yes, one million times yes. If breeders can't discipline their own feral brats they should get zero say in how someone else does it.

ETA: I think the general public should be allowed to whack a feral brat.

Both my sister and I got our asses beat as kids and we're quite fine. Bring back the old school ass whoopings.

I don't believe in it. No one should be assaulted, no matter what his/her age. We had a grade school principal who would beat the kids until their asses were raw. and don't even get me started on the sadistic, perverted coaches and phys. ed teachers...it's just too risky. We have detention, In-school suspension, and out of school suspension. If a kid still hasn't learned, then there is the alternative ed. school. Although I've found that, like the paddlings of years past, the horrible boys are sent there much more often than the horrible girls. A girl has to do a LOT more terrible things than a boy to be sent there. Our principal is a bit sexist, I think.

I found the fire hose more effective...which might be why I don't sub anymore...

It seems like it would work in theory but not in reality. I have heard stories from several people around my dad's age that makes me doubt it will work in these times.


My HS law teacher said that the school system I attended stopped doing corporal punishment because the staff was incapable of administering it fairly. Mostly the ones who needed it the most never got beat, such as the jocks and popular kids. Plus back in those days, race played a factor.

My dad, when he was in high school in Southeast GA [he's 50 something now], said that they were very unfair with the paddle. He still remembers the incident where a white teacher tried to paddle a black student for some reason, probably unfairly and it turned into a school-wide race riot, with the teacher beaten. They discontinued it after that incident.

I went to a small private Christian school that practiced it, but no one got in enough trouble for it to be necessary.

It seems like the current generation of students are worse from my observations and if you try to use physical punishment in any form, you'd probably cause a massive disturbance as they will fight back, especially with Middle/High Schoolers. This doesn't include the other issues I haven't even though of.

if parents would discipline their brats at home teachers wouldn't have to.

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cfmoneybags
Anyone remember that kid Michael Faye who was caned in Singapore for vandalizing a judicials car? Never did it again (in that country) did he?? LOL.larious

I'm sure he didn't. (I've heard it leaves permanent scars.)

However, somewhat surprisingly, even conservative John Rosemond wasn't in favor of the caning - and he pointed out that in all likelihood, most (probably all) of the American adults who were cackling with glee over the case would respond quite differently if any reporter were to ask them "would you want YOUR son to go through this, if he were convicted?"

And, Rosemond once said: "To spank or not to spank is not the question. The question is, does a particular punishment stop the bad behavior from recurring, or not?"

I'm also pretty sure he opposes paddling in schools - for many reasons already mentioned. Also, he certainly doesn't believe in parents' using anything other than the hand - that, he says, is a beating, not a spanking.

Spanking is a little harsh because of the subtle sexual overtones, and is especially problematic with high school students. As much as I despise violent teenagers, having some vice principal get his jollies off paddling the buttocks of a 16-year-old makes me uneasy.

I'm a little biased because my first-grade public school teacher used to whack us with rulers. I remember the metal edge scraping my hand, all for the infraction of a goddamn messy desk. She was an uber-cunt Kamp Kommandant that frightened my young peers and I wouldn't wish her rule on anyone.

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"[GFG's pregnancy is] kind of like at the stables where that one dumb, ugly-ass mare broke out of her corral one day and got herself screwed by the equally fugly colt that was due to be gelded the same afternoon."- Shiny

I went to a few different types of schools(private, public, Christian) when I was a kid(70s-80s) and some of them did practice corporal punishment. I remember one incident in which a kid had a huge black and blue mark on the back of his leg because the principal beat him with the buckle end of a belt. This is an extreme incident but even if I hadn't seen this, I'd still think school shouldn't paddle for reasons already mentioned.

In the schools I went to where it was administered, it was never administered fairly. There were plenty of kids who misbehaved and never got it, and girls never got paddled no matter what they did. People have gotten offended when I say things like this, but girls are NOT sugar and spice and everything nice as the old nursery rhyme goes. I went to school with a few who were actually worse than some of the boys were.

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LucyTrainWreck
P.S. I'm so aggravated by some of the kids who have no consequences at home. I can see the frustrated looks on students' faces who want to learn.

That is why I think most school discipline other than removing the troublesome student isn't effective because the discipline isn't reinforced at home. If I got in trouble for any reason, I caught hell when I got home so I tried to stay out of trouble. I knew other kids who had parents who didn't care what they did at school and they'd get paddlings, detentions, suspensions, etc., and of course the behavior didn't change. Kicking them out didn't straighten them up, but it did keep them from disrupting the students who wanted to learn.

JD

I am not in favor of corporal punishment. If you think there are too many fucking pedos in the schools now, just wait until some school introduces a spanking clause to it's discipline program. They'll be lining up to smack asses.

It's just too risky. If some shit-bag is causing trouble, remove him/her. No muss, no fuss.

gymrat:
We had a grade school principal who would beat the kids until their asses were raw. and don't even get me started on the sadistic, perverted coaches and phys. ed teachers..

reddog:
My HS law teacher said that the school system I attended stopped doing corporal punishment because the staff was incapable of administering it fairly. Mostly the ones who needed it the most never got beat, such as the jocks and popular kids.

Ms Hannigan:
Spanking is a little harsh because of the subtle sexual overtones, and is especially problematic with high school students. As much as I despise violent teenagers, having some vice principal get his jollies off paddling the buttocks of a 16-year-old makes me uneasy.

This, this, and this.

And add to that that most schools still don't deal with bullying (stalking is a better word).... Like Jayjay and nobody posted, I'd rather have the real trouble-makers kicked out of school, and the parents get investigated and punished if need be.

From the late, great Quentin Crisp's 1968 autobiography, "The Naked Civil Servant," chapter 2 (he was British, for those who don't know, and this scene took place circa 1923):

"His sin was the occasion of the only public beating that I have ever witnessed. The entire school was assembled in the big hall and seated on benches on either side of the room. In the open space in the middle, the modern Romeo bent over and the headmaster ran down the room to administer the blows. After the first two strokes the younger brother of the victim left the room. Even now I can't help wishing that we had all done the same. What made this exhibition so disgusting was not the pain inflicted. Today, a go-ahead schoolmaster would say, `This delights me more than it delights you.' In many parts of London, such goings-on are just another way of making a party go with a swing. What was almost insufferable was that a simple form of self-gratification should be put forward as a moral duty. Before that day I had disliked the head; afterwards I hated him."