Michigan's Womyn's Music Festival

I attended the Michigan Womyn's Music Fest a few times in my youth. I was always amazed at how smoothly and well-organized Michfest was, and I loved watching lesbians and feminists coming together to give women a safe, happy place.

I walked to the subway tonight with a woman who also has been to Michfest, and we discussed the problems that have popped up in recent years.

Michfest WAS a music festival for adult women - young and old. You were free to camp in an area where you felt comfortable (Chemical Free, Over 50, Vegan, etc) and you were free to behave as you saw fit - within limits, of course. Back in the day, there were many women of all body types who enjoyed the event nude or topless and snuggled up to their female partners without worry of ridicule.

First came the children. As lesbians got into the "gayby" boom and modern Mommies got more "crunchy", more and more kids started showing up at Michfest. There was childcare for them, separate camping areas for families, etc. But naturally, along with children comes things like public breastfeeding, some women asking for a little more "decency" from the nude revelers and lots of fucking noise.

Second came Camp Trans. Now, as a queer person, I am friends with queers of all varieties - gay, lesbian, genderqueer, gender outlaw, MTF, FTM. Michfest has always stated that the festival is for "women born women". There were initially some titters (no pun intended) about FTMs and genderqueers attending the festival, but that faded away. However, Michfest, to this day, does not allow MTFs into the festival. Basically, if you have male equipment, you were not allowed.

Now, I have met quite a few transsexual women at Michfest, but they were post-op and stealth. Camp Trans popped up for pre-op MTFs, MTF genderqueers and other woman-identified males. The last time that I was there, Camp Trans had gone from a peaceful protest to all out anarchy.

Trans women were running through the woods showing festival-goers their junk and screaming at the gate. There were totally nude trans women in the showers, and women at the festival didn't want to shower or take children in there. There was also some incidents of people masturbating in public and screaming obscenities.

This year, groups like the Indigo Girls are speaking out against MTF transphobia, and are calling for the incorporation of Camp Trans attendees into the regular festival.

Some of the feminist and lesbian groups that I subscribe to have EXPLODED over this, stating that letting the women from Camp Trans in was:

A.) Triggering for rape survivors if they see penises or MTFs masturbating
B.) Bad for young girls because Michfest is supposed to be a "safe, women-only" environment, where girls are free to enjoy their bodies without commentary from males. There is also concern about young girls seeing penises.
C.) Suspicion about sexual abuse because it seems that some of the more recent Camp Trans attendees use drugs, which lead to bad behavior.
D.) Concern over straight attendees wanting to bring their male partners if woman-identified males are allowed to attend.

So, what do you all think about all of this? Legitimate concerns or complete overreaction?

Modern Feminism = Moos & Brats First, everyone else second to last

70s Feminism = Women rejecting breeding and glass ceilings.

I don't know how we got from what we had in the 70s to what we have now, except to say that I think the fundamentalist fambly - centric assholes got to the movement somehow and basically forced a change to the moo and brat stuff by sheer oppression of women, once again.

Let's not forget many of the first feminists like Gloria Steinam had no children and it was not child-centric at all in the 70s. Women wanted to get the fuck away from childbearing and things that kept them tied to the kitchen and laundry.

As for the MTFs..... well if you are female and born with the wrong parts, then you ARE female. Psychiatry agrees with this nowadays. The post ops dont have any junk to shake and the pre-ops ... are we sure they are REALLY pre-ops and not just crossdressers at that festival? They could be straight men crossdressing and claiming to be pre-op. In that case, I don't think they belong at a womens festival but how can you know for sure? I think the running around jacking off thing is a sure sign its a crossdresser and not a pre-op. Crossdressers identify sexually with womens clothes and stuff but they ARE NOT women born with the wrong parts. They still identify fully as male. But like I said, how can you weed them out from the real pre-ops? Not all pre-ops are going to have breasts either.

Men coming and shaking their junk there is an act of aggression against the women there, period. If you are shaking your junk and masturbating you aren't a woman. I just can't see real MTFs doing this. I can see crossdressers doing it, tho. Most crossdressers are straight men.

*No offense to any crossdressers that have enough manners, and no most do not act this way or want to invade aggressively like that.

Maybe a "check you penis at the door" policy. It is tough on guys who have not been able to have their surgery yet but that is only a small percentage. I don't understand why a FTM would WANT to be at a female even if you are a male in the wrong body.

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octocf


As for the MTFs..... well if you are female and born with the wrong parts, then you ARE female. Psychiatry agrees with this nowadays. The post ops dont have any junk to shake and the pre-ops ... are we sure they are REALLY pre-ops and not just crossdressers at that festival? They could be straight men crossdressing and claiming to be pre-op. In that case, I don't think they belong at a womens festival but how can you know for sure? I think the running around jacking off thing is a sure sign its a crossdresser and not a pre-op. Crossdressers identify sexually with womens clothes and stuff but they ARE NOT women born with the wrong parts. They still identify fully as male. But like I said, how can you weed them out from the real pre-ops? Not all pre-ops are going to have breasts either.

While they might be 'female' in the psychiatric sense, biologically they ARE still male. And it's hard to know for sure until they actually have their junk removed, which a dude still secretly thinking of himself as a dude would never be willing to do. Until they have their full surgery, they shouldn't be attending a woman's festival, especially if it could be triggering to some women.

It's not only that, but these folks are becoming obnoxious at this festival, running roughshod all over and ruining what is supposed to be a fun event. These unaltered MTF trans still are acting like entitled men who get denied their accustomed 'male privilege,' instead of respecting the wishes of those who intend it to solely be for women. Especially when they start bleating about 'Transphobia' to guilt trip the women into letting them in. It shows the true ignorance they have about women's lives that only a man can manifest, female-in-a-man's body be damned.

I'm pretty conflicted about the whole thing.

E. and I were talking about going this year.

First off, I don't want to deal with anyone's fucking kids. I don't want to end up sitting next to some crunchy Moo whipping out her tits and BF in all of her glory, nor do I want to deal with their fucking toddlers. There's also a childcare area set up for little boys. Come on. This is a WOMEN'S music festival, why do we have little boys running around? They are now allowing boys through age 10. I understand that there is a bit of controversy about Michfest allowing boys to attend the festival, but Dog forbid the organizers speak out and tell the Mombies to STAY THE FUCK HOME.

The entire issue with the trans women has gone out of control. I think that there was an incident 2 years ago where trans women spray painted graffiti about their cocks all over the kitchen and bathroom. I think that I agree with OctoCF - that the trans women who are making the most trouble are either pre-op/pre-hormone or non-op/non-hormone and they don't like being told no.

I still have time to think about it before I make a decision about buying tickets, but I am leaning more towards not going. It's pretty expensive, and if I am going to be annoyed the entire fucking time, then why bother?

oh for fucks sake these whores need to get a sitter. there should be a no keeeyuuds policy period. eyes2 And 10 year old boys? wtf. I would say if they have to let in brats nothing over 5! jesus.

I can understand (not really, but for what its worth) moos coming that have a brat under two that has to tit feed all the time. but anything else, get a fuckin sitter!

and i'm sorry, but someone that paints penis grafitti does not belong at the womyns lesbian feminist gathering. this is TROLLING, no more and no less. The organizers need to understand that. It's no different than when the breeders come here to bratfree to "teach us" something. TROLLS.

Maybe what needs to happen is that everyone who identifies as female is allowed and heavy handed security is in place to boot the minute they are caught leering or doing anything. What is security actually like at these events? The love mushy moo goddess that asks people nicely to leave or behave themselves? Or the hardass warrior princess with a big fuckin flashlight ready to open up the whoop-ass on leering perverts? Might makes right. z

#1 something like this should have a no kyds policy.

#2, they need to increase security.

#3, the entire event needs to be desexualized. Your sex life and your private junk shouldn't be out in public and I really don't give a fuck about your politics about it. Lesbian, bi, straight, trans, doesn't matter, your underwear need to stay on at all times unless you're at your own house. Unless you're protesting that sex and vaginas and dicks SHOULD be publicly displayed without legal or social repercussion, at which point you should set up your own protest for that purpose and stop co-opting someone else's festival for your own agenda.

The fact that exposure, sexual activity, public masturbation, and the like seems to be "allowed" at the concert is why these issues are cropping up. Personally I wouldn't want to go to a "music festival" where people are feeling themselves up and each other and can't keep their fucking shit in their pants, and I don't give a fuck WHAT you are or what you believe. That's just fucking stupid and immature. Go home or get a hotel room if you can't keep your damned clothes on. When people start acting a bit more civilized and obeying the law instead of acting like chimps, we won't have to worry about checking in people's underwear to see what they are before letting them into an event.

My advice: Call ahead to see if the festival organizers will have security actually enforcing the law. Public masturbators and naked people need to be arrested for indecent exposure. The laws against indecent exposure are the way they are so EVERYONE can enjoy the experience without the above described issues cropping up. If you're going to let women expose themselves in "solidarity" you can't then turn around and tell the pre-op trannies that THEY can't.

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law
#1 something like this should have a no kyds policy.

#2, they need to increase security.

#3, the entire event needs to be desexualized. Your sex life and your private junk shouldn't be out in public and I really don't give a fuck about your politics about it. Lesbian, bi, straight, trans, doesn't matter, your underwear need to stay on at all times unless you're at your own house. Unless you're protesting that sex and vaginas and dicks SHOULD be publicly displayed without legal or social repercussion, at which point you should set up your own protest for that purpose and stop co-opting someone else's festival for your own agenda.

The fact that exposure, sexual activity, public masturbation, and the like seems to be "allowed" at the concert is why these issues are cropping up. Personally I wouldn't want to go to a "music festival" where people are feeling themselves up and each other and can't keep their fucking shit in their pants, and I don't give a fuck WHAT you are or what you believe. That's just fucking stupid and immature. Go home or get a hotel room if you can't keep your damned clothes on. When people start acting a bit more civilized and obeying the law instead of acting like chimps, we won't have to worry about checking in people's underwear to see what they are before letting them into an event.

My advice: Call ahead to see if the festival organizers will have security actually enforcing the law. Public masturbators and naked people need to be arrested for indecent exposure. The laws against indecent exposure are the way they are so EVERYONE can enjoy the experience without the above described issues cropping up. If you're going to let women expose themselves in "solidarity" you can't then turn around and tell the pre-op trannies that THEY can't.

Never in my life have I attended a festival for "womyn," and I highly doubt I ever will.

But based on the original poster's narrative, it seems to me that the history of this event indicates that it was always sexualized, and is only now being de-sexualized in the name of being "fambly friendly."

Am I right in thinking that this festival is kind of a private thing in a secluded area? I'm picturing it being in a huge field far away from civilization, kind of like Woodstock.

I say if these "womyn" want to take their clothes off, masturbate, whatever, ... who cares? As long as the event organizers are willing to get the proper permits and provide their own security, I see nothing morally wrong with this. I see this as yet another event that was originally intended for adults only now being invaded by children. And instead of doing what's right--which would be barring those who are under 18 from attending--the authorities are pressured to turn this into an event that's appropriate for all ages. It's not like they're doing this during the 7th inning stretch on the field at Comerica Park. It's probably pretty secluded.

As far as the transsexuals go--they might need to be banned simply because they have male parts. That may be a safety issue. But hey, if they want to have their own festival in the same field the following week, I'm all for it.

I think we are all tired of seeing children/famblees encroach on what was once our territory. 98% of American restaurants and tourist attractions are famblee friendly. What's wrong with allowing us to keep the other 2%?

The festival is held on 650 acres in Michigan. Heavily wooded area, etc etc.

The festival was always a women-born women only event as well as clothing optional. There really wasn't a lot of sexual shenanigans going on as far as I know considering the women who attend the festival - maybe some snuggling amongst topless or nude women, but that was about it.

The sexual stuff began when Camp Trans started protesting next to the festival. Camp Trans attendees would come up to nude or topless women in the woods and expose themselves or they would stand at the fence and masturbate, screaming obscenities.

Moomies began getting upset because they would see nude transwomen in the showers or on the festival grounds. However, I don't think that a Moomy who brings their fucking 10 year boy to the festival should be saying ANYTHING about seeing penises at the event.

E. and I talked about the festival over lunch today and we decided this:

1. No one is going to stop women from bringing their kids to the event because then they will scream discrimination. However, being that Michfest was touted as a "women-born-women" only event since it's inception in 1976, I think that it should be 18+, women only and NO MALES of any kind, I don't care how old they are. Women AND men are both entitled to single-sex space sometimes. I don't approve of women trying to horn in on gay men's cruises or vacations, either.

2. I think that if you're a pre-op/pre-hormone or non-op/non-hormone MTF or CD, you don't belong at Michfest. It would be the same thing if I was a pre-op/pre-hormone FTM and identified as gay. Sure, I would love me some hot gay men, but there are places where gay FTMs can meet gay men who want them. Barging in on all cis-male gay space isn't going to make me any friends.

3. Blogs from 2011/2012 are being sent out to women who have attended the Fest in the past, where Camp Trans members admit to being armed and wanting a physical confrontation with festival attendees.

Possibly the biggest issue that I see with Michfest is that the organizers are well, acting like women. Moomies wanted entrance, so they let them in. Moomies with male children wanted entrance, so they let them in. Radical genderqueer and FTMs who identify as "feminist" wanted in, so they let them in. Disabled, sober, Jewish, African-American and Latina women complained that there weren't enough musicians or workshops for them, so the organizers got on that.

If this was a GAY men's festival, do you think this shit would go on? No. Ever set foot into all cis-male gay space? The looks alone could kill you. I'm not saying that gay men are exclusive or anything, but they enjoy coming together for events and no one gives them shit when they say MEN ONLY and mean it. You just don't fuck with gay men.

Women-only space is actually a good thing for women and girls. I'm not saying that the entire world should be segregated into single-sex, but in this day and age - it's good for women and girls to get out of the social and media-driven frenzy telling them to be attractive and submissive to boys. However, if women want to have these spaces, they need to put their fucking foot down and stop considering everyone's feelings and opinions.

Somehow, it's alright to have space for disabled folks, autistic folks, mentally ill folks, religious folks, etc etc and so on - but saying that there is going to be "an all women's space" suddenly gets men and women's panties in an uproar.....