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JohnDrake
In today's world, if he was the one who didn't want kids and she did, he'd still be in the wrong. Men just can't win these days.

JD

I really don't think what you're seeing is a sexist response. On the board the guy originally posted on, it sounds like there was a breeder response--the one who wants children is always right--which led to them taking the man's point of view. Here, you're seeing more of an anti-manipulative stance: the one who disregards the stated position of the partner and thinks it is only a matter of time before the partner 'sees the light' is in the wrong.

It isn't even that the CF person is always right. If this post had been written in the following way, I would have said that the person who wanted children (who happens to be the man) is in the right:

I've been married to my husband for almost four years. I don't want kids and he still does. I haven't bugged him about not having children, since I figure he'll come around and I don't want to bitch about the issue since it makes me look selfish and naggy.

He told me he has interest in having children. He's always had an interest and he told me (even before we married) that he knows he's meant to have a bunch of kids and he feels fine going through life without feeling the "societal pressure" to stop at two...

John Drake and Mercurior would get along great.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

I'm one of the very lucky ones.

I had the exact opposite reaction from my DH than this lady had from hers when I was very honest with my DH and told him, after more than five years of marriage, that I still didn't want to get pregnant and have a child. My DH was ecstatic to hear that from me. He knew that I was very much a fencesitter about parenthood when we married, and that I wanted a few years alone with him before we even talked about parenthood, and as he was a fencesitter, too, he didn't pressure me at all.

It was only after we started receiving pressure from his mother, who very much wanted to be a grandmother, that we started talking about parenthood - and we decided together that having a child of our own wasn't for us. We felt our life was complete enough without adding a child to the mix (which we thought would just make our lives too stressful instead of providing us with joy), and that we had enough "child time" in our lives by being a cool aunt and uncle and spending time with friends' children. That's when we started being vocal to our family members who were pressuring us - especially DH's mom. It took a few years, but they did back off, and now DH and I rarely feel pressure from others - friends, family, well-meaning strangers and even society - to reproduce. That could be the result of us reaching our 40s and more than 10 years of marriage and being CF (we're both 43).

My point - this dude needs to BACK OFF from thinking that his wife is a freak for not wanting to be a mom when she's still in her early 30s - and to cut out the sh** about who is a "typical woman." My darling husband has never thought that way about me or any other woman - he knows that we're all unique individuals and don't think the same way or have the same goals in life.

This dude also needs to accept the fact that his wife probably will NOT change her mind about parenthood.

If he truly loves her for her, and not for her ability and desire to reproduce or not, he will enjoy marriage with her, and, together, they can figure out how their lives can be full without children. And he can figure out to get the "child time" he wants through nieces and nephews, charity work with children, friends' children, etc.

If he's so determined that have a wife that will give him a baybee, then he needs to ask for a divorce since, sadly, there may be no way for him to realize that reproducing isn't a requirement in marriage, and not having children is actually very good for many marriages. For example - I've developed some chronic medical problems during the last few years, and I think I've stayed healthy precisely because I don't have to spend energy on caring for children and have the stress that comes with parenthood. And, unlike our siblings who have children, DH and I have been able to save quite a bit of money during our 13 years of marriage, since we don't have the expenses that come with parenthood. We will never have the stress of overwhelming debt.

Too bad that no one in the comments suggested that baybee-rabid Duhwanna offer to baybeesit some squalling offspring for some friends. As I was reading his blat, I found myself thinking of Bitchy Waiter and this post that he wrote:

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At one point, I looked over at the father and he had his head in his hands. The look in his eyes was one of sadness and desperation. It was as if he couldn't believe that he only gets one vacation a year and here he was stuck on his vacation with his family.

We've all commented on how men get to this point. Well, as I was reading Duhwanna's sexist, breederific phantasmagoria, I was thinking, This man will definitely end up like that Duh, because he doesn't have a clue. He wants to have kids because "that's just what people do." "That's just how women think." I notice that he does not really talk about his feelings for kids - he probably doesn't have any real feelings for them. You just produce offspring because that's just how "typical" people are supposed to live, isn't that right? A recipe for disaster!

And if I were his woman and I got an inkling of his post, I would tell this asshole, "Yeah, you married a freak - you married a superfreak. I'm superfreaky. COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS!" Then I'd go dance with a lot of men at a club in front of hubby and see if he gets his shit together. If not, bye-bye, baybee-bition!

I'd say SHE'S the one who married the freak!!!
What a whiny little pussy!
Get a hobby buddy, a "grown up" one that doesn't require you to have a mini me to play with!

I especially love how the response that is the most supportive of the guy (calling the woman selfish) is also the most illiterate one:

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oh i think u have all right to be mad. I think that shes to caaught up in her self to think about what u want and what u need. She sounds very selfish to me. You apperently want kids very badly so u have to figure out if thats somethang u can go all through life with out because i dnt think shes goin to give in. I hope all goes well

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"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin

Another thing too that just FLOORS me is how already shitty fathers with kyds from another marriage will bring up parenthood and "having one of our own" to the current wife when she can CLEARLY see that he is a failure to the kyds that he already has spawned!!!!!!!! This happened to me with this last asshole I divorced over five years ago. After about 5-6 years of marriage he brings up how we should, "have one of our own"!!!!! Then follows it up with, "you'd be such a good mother!" I was astonished that he had the audacity to even bring such a thing up after KNOWING that I had witnessed his shitty parenting skills and had commented on it more than once!

After I recovered from the initial shock, I replied, "Even though at some points in my life I may have considered having children, after witnessing what a HORRIBLE parent that you are, I'd be an IDIOT to create a kyd with you knowing that I am already a "single mom" to YOUR kyd so why in hell would I want ANOTHER kyd to raise on my own? NO FUCKING THANKS!" I went on to say, "MY being a good parent isn't in question as it has already been established that I can literally take in an unrelated child and be a good parent! IT'S YOU who is an AWFUL parent and I wouldn't even dream of mixing my DNA with you! I can't believe that you would even bring it up after all I have said about it either! Are you INSANE? NO I won't have a kyd with you not NOW or ever! If my choice to have children was ever in question, then YOU have sealed that subject shut due to your HORRIBLE parenting skills, or lack thereof!"::sbx

Apparently, he hadn't realized that 1) I had felt that way, and 2)That he was a shitty parent, although I don't see how he could have "missed" either thing since I am generally pretty clear about what I say. Again, people hear what they WANT to hear.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

Q: My Wife Doesn't Want Kids. Did I Marry a Freak?
A: No, but your wife married a fucktard.

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"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin

I was married to a man like this fucking douchebag asshole (words which are too kind for the likes of him).

You guys pretty much covered it completely, I totally believe that sexist fucks like this couldn't care less about kyds, their language gives them away (if they really wanted kyds, they'd have gotten to know themselves deeply and what they truly wanted, and then married someone with the same goals, not stupidly marry someone they'd have to try to change). It is all about control, domination, and disrespect. They are deeply immature and have serious emotional issues. If they DID have kyds, they'd treat their kyds with the same dismissive disregard and control as they do their wives. If a spouse pulls this shit, it is a no win situation. (Notice how the wife is successful but this assfuck doesn't say what he does for a living. I'd bet his lack of ambition is because he's too damned busy trying to control his wife. My ex didn't have an ounce of ambition. Berating me was his real career.)

I knew my ex would ignore any kyds we had and treat them like shit, the same way he treated me.

People who are desperate to have kyds usually make the worst parents. I'm happy as shit I divorced my wannabreed ex, and hopefully for the good of the rest of the world, his being 100 lbs overweight has cooked all his sperm to death and he's sterile. One can only hope.

Looks like she foolishly married a liar who should have BELONGED in the 1950s!

So she better get out before he gets the notion to RAPE her and MAKE her have the resulting baybee!

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kidlesskim
When the men (nag for baybees), it's generally because the wife has excelled in other areas since the marriage such as she has earned an advanced degree or recently received a promotion which will cause her to be more absent from the home and less available to care for HIS needs. In these cases, the men are trying to remove her independence, make her helpless and vulnerable, and therefore more dependent on him.:crz

That sums it up for me. Certain men, who were once crazy in love with their high-flying, independent, hard-to-get girlfriend, get their 'nads in a twist a few years down the line when they see their wives resolutely refusing to become the barefoot and pregnant kitchen-troll their mothers obviously were. Because, you know, it's so fucking inconvenient to have to carry your own dirty plate back into the kitchen every evening.

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fuckwitted cunt
She already has an M.A degree and has a career...so why the heck won't she settle down already.

Yes. Why doesn't she just throw away her dreams, her life, her achievements, and cut off all contact with the outside world so that she can spend the next 20 unholy years surrounded by a drooling brain-damaged pant-shitter -- and a fucking baybee.

Hang on I'm not stopping yet. I've said it on this board before, but I have to repeat it. Broody men don't "think about having children" any more than a 6-year-old "thinks about having a birthday party". All they know is that they walk up to mummy and make their wishes known, and then they spend a lot of time waiting excitedly and writing down lists of names. Everyone keeps asking them if they can hardly wait. And then they can't sleep the night before. And then the day comes and it's all too much, and there's noise and people rushing around everywhere, and suddenly everyone's cheering for them and singing and congratulating them and handing them gifts and there are loads of balloons and games and cake and jelly for years and years.

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"The death of creativity is a pram in the hallway"
- Cyril Connolly

He wants a baby because he is thinking in Kodak moments. He won't do one bit of the shitwork involved.

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From a bottle cap message on a Magic Hat #9 beer: Condoms Prevent Minivans
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I want to pick up a bus full of unruly kids and feed them gummi bears and crack, then turn them loose in Hobby Lobby to ransack the place. They will all be wearing T shirts that say "You Could Have Prevented This."

Amethyst: :yr

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Because, you know, it's so fucking inconvenient to have to carry your own dirty plate back into the kitchen every evening.

THIS! Why don't these assholes just hire a maid? That's what I told my ex when he got his panties in a wad over my lack of housekeeping skills (to his standards, anyway) - if he wanted someone to clean his house, get the fucking yellow pages and call someone. I was not put on this planet to be anyone's goddamn slave. And he KNEW I was a lackadaisical cleaner well before we were married. (My house isn't filthy, but I tend to be cluttered and lenient with myself about chores. I'm getting better though!) He knew that going in, and was a control freak about everything. When I did chores, he'd come behind me and redo them because I did them wrong, so I'd receive a lecture as well.

These men don't need wives and famblees, they need a moo to take care of them and change their diapers because they get cranky if expected to take care of themselves. They want their fucktrophy to prove that their sperm works, and someone else to do the cuntwork of raising said fucktrophy while they play baseball or football or whathaveyou in the backyard with Shitford.

I can't stand breeder men. There is nothing emotionally healthy about them.

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navi8orgirl
thunderdouche.

Whaaat?

:: falls over laughing:: larious

I love being on a group like this. After a hard day working on a house remodel, reading stuff like this puts me in a relaxed, humorized state of mind

Oh man... Reading this made me so mad that my ears are hot! Just the style of this guys writing shows his glaring immaturity and incompetence. She couldn't have been more clear with him. She needs to get the fuck away from this selfish, disrespectful asshole before he starts messing with the birth control.

Yea... BIG time deal breaker here! RUUUUNNN!

I notice that the question is marked RESOLVED. Makes me wonder how the story turned out.

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JohnDrake
In today's world, if he was the one who didn't want kids and she did, he'd still be in the wrong. Men just can't win these days.

JD

And in today's world, if a man didn't want kyds, his wife would be highly unlikely to say she thought he'd change his mind about having them like a "typical man," and ask random strangers if they thought he was a freak.

What is it exactly men aren't winning these days? On average men are still paid more for the same work. Over three quarters of the US Congress is male. You're still in charge, dude. You seem to object to the fact that he's being called an idiot after doing a completely stupid thing (and being pretty sexist about it in the bargain). It sounds like the only way you'd be happy is with zero criticism of anyone male.

It's the 21st century, and females are allowed to criticize the big hairy man when he acts like a complete fucktard.

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Dorisan
I notice that the question is marked RESOLVED. Makes me wonder how the story turned out.

I'm wondering that as well.

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lab mom

Cambion LOL!!!

And then when the cactus is shoved up in there he can say that he is pregnant and expecting a porcupine

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JohnDrake
In today's world, if he was the one who didn't want kids and she did, he'd still be in the wrong. Men just can't win these days.

JD

What are you talking about? Your comment is giving me a sexist vibe.

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Amethyst
Yes. Why doesn't she just throw away her dreams, her life, her achievements, and cut off all contact with the outside world so that she can spend the next 20 unholy years surrounded by a drooling brain-damaged pant-shitter -- and a fucking baybee.

Hang on I'm not stopping yet. I've said it on this board before, but I have to repeat it. Broody men don't "think about having children" any more than a 6-year-old "thinks about having a birthday party". All they know is that they walk up to mummy and make their wishes known, and then they spend a lot of time waiting excitedly and writing down lists of names. Everyone keeps asking them if they can hardly wait. And then they can't sleep the night before. And then the day comes and it's all too much, and there's noise and people rushing around everywhere, and suddenly everyone's cheering for them and singing and congratulating them and handing them gifts and there are loads of balloons and games and cake and jelly for years and years.

A thing of BEAUTY.

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Miss_Hannigan

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Amethyst
Yes. Why doesn't she just throw away her dreams, her life, her achievements, and cut off all contact with the outside world so that she can spend the next 20 unholy years surrounded by a drooling brain-damaged pant-shitter -- and a fucking baybee.

Hang on I'm not stopping yet. I've said it on this board before, but I have to repeat it. Broody men don't "think about having children" any more than a 6-year-old "thinks about having a birthday party". All they know is that they walk up to mummy and make their wishes known, and then they spend a lot of time waiting excitedly and writing down lists of names. Everyone keeps asking them if they can hardly wait. And then they can't sleep the night before. And then the day comes and it's all too much, and there's noise and people rushing around everywhere, and suddenly everyone's cheering for them and singing and congratulating them and handing them gifts and there are loads of balloons and games and cake and jelly for years and years.

A thing of BEAUTY.

I agree and it IS worth repeating again and again, although many moos think that it will be rainbows and puppy dog tails too, but are slapped in the face with shitty diapers and vomit in no time flat! ANY man who whines and nags his CF wife to spawn or even a woman who has already had kyds, but he just wants MORE and she does not, is an asshole. Although people ALWAYS pounce me when I say this, I have NEVER personally seen, been made aware of by anyone I know in real life, or have known ANY man, even among the "good daddys", who do anywhere NEAR the shit work that women are expected to do by society regarding cleaning up after and taking care of kyds. Men simply will NOT do it! When they DO do any shitwork, it's often not worth it because they want praise and recognition for doing the simplest of tasks that the moos or PNB moms do all day and every day! It appears EXHAUSTIVE having to deal with a baybee AND a grown man who wants accolades for dumping the diaper pail.

Sure, it's easy to say, "Just let them stay dirty, it won't hurt!", like I have heard fathers say, but it DOES "hurt". It "hurts" because they could get parasitic infections causing ALL KINDS of damage in too many ways to name. They will likely get sick more often if they stay dirty and if nothing else, it's a NASTY hygiene habit for a kyd to learn that it's "okay" to go to bed with a dirty asshole, crust of unknown origin on his face, and with smelly little hands, feet and faces! It's NASTY to let a kyd walk around with a truckload of shit in his daiper, or sleep on top of a towel that's tossed over a urine saturated mattress, but I have seen fathers do shit like that and everyone just laughs it off. Let MOO do that and she is a pig!

NO THANKS! Life wouldn't be worth living to have to do all of the work AND brag on the man in order for him to change ONE diaper to my ten. I saw too much of it with my parents and have witnessed it ALL over again with my sister as well. My ex husband did LESS for his kyd than I did and it was HIS kyd! Men do not care WHO does the work as long as he isn't the one doing it and they WILL NOT do what is required to raise a clean and healthy child. That man MAY exist, but I don't know about him. It's NOT a life that I would choose for myself which is just another log on the fire of why I am ChildFREE.:sbx

P.S:I am envious that society doesn't expect men to be maids and I stay pissed that society frowns on a WIFE when the husband looks or dresses like a slob!

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

It amazes me how many men - usually the ones who have kyds - act like children themselves. They need to be tremendously praised for doing the simplest task (even if it's a half-assed attempt) if there's to be any chance he'll do the same thing again. This could be anything, from changing a diaper to washing the dishes. Why do these men want to be so helpless? How masculine is a man who can't get off his fat hairy ass and put a plate in the sink, underwear in the hamper, or make his own fucking sandwich? These men are the product of mothers who raised them to believe they deserve to be waited on hand and foot because they have the coveted grand-baby-producing penis, and the women who marry them and stay with them forever are the kinds who want to take care of children - either literal children or men who act like defenseless little brats.

I'm sure the woman in the OP is the breadwinner, and Duh either has some dead-end job, no job, is on unemployment or welfare. Why is it always whoever isn't working in a relationship is the one to decide they want to have kids?

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kidlesskim
I agree and it IS worth repeating again and again, although many moos think that it will be rainbows and puppy dog tails too, but are slapped in the face with shitty diapers and vomit in no time flat! ANY man who whines and nags his CF wife to spawn or even a woman who has already had kyds, but he just wants MORE and she does not, is an asshole. Although people ALWAYS pounce me when I say this, I have NEVER personally seen, been made aware of by anyone I know in real life, or have known ANY man, even among the "good daddys", who do anywhere NEAR the shit work that women are expected to do by society regarding cleaning up after and taking care of kyds. Men simply will NOT do it! When they DO do any shitwork, it's often not worth it because they want praise and recognition for doing the simplest of tasks that the moos or PNB moms do all day and every day! It appears EXHAUSTIVE having to deal with a baybee AND a grown man who wants accolades for dumping the diaper pail.

I would agree with you that, in general, women do more child-related work than men, but always is a bit of an exaggeration (certainly in the case of a good friend of mine, who is a single father). I have seen heterosexual relationships where the participants appeared to be roughly equal in terms of childcare responsibilities, but they don't seem to be very common.

If you ask me, too many women are willing to have a baby with a man who can't even be trusted to do half of the housework when they don't have children. To achieve equality in the domestic sphere, women have to be willing to be alone rather than be with someone who won't do half. It seems that few mother-types are willing to stand firm on that. I am inclined to blame them for choosing an unequal situation and teaching the next generation that that's acceptable. Of course the men are not in the right, but it's quite easy to see why they don't try to change the status quo, when it is to their benefit.

Anyhow, I have no doubt that the OP does not envision equally shared childcare duties.

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ShimmyMuse
I notice that he does not really talk about his feelings for kids - he probably doesn't have any real feelings for them. You just produce offspring because that's just how "typical" people are supposed to live, isn't that right? A recipe for disaster!

Hmm, you're right--that really stands out, now that you mention it. Though anyone who thinks in terms of "typical women" is probably not too self-reflective...