boyfriend on the fence

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bell_flower
Let me be clear: I don't believe in living together when you are just dating someone*, particularly people who move in really quickly, before they know someone. You are tempted to overlook things to keep the relationship going because moving out is ugly.

Great post above, Bell Flower. As to living together, I do see your point, and especially if they move in quickly. But on the other hand, if in a serious relationship, I think living together first before marriage can be good. At least if it doesn't work out (that first year, IMO, is the telling year), I think it's easier to leave. I lived with my husband for a year before we got married and I'm glad we did. It allowed us to see if we were right for each other. Fortunately things worked out well for us and we're still married 26 years later. People are usually on their best behavior when dating, but living together not always.

As to the OP, if you think you really want to stay with him, if it was me, I would be having some very in depth conversations. It sounds to me that after the news of your friend's father, that he is having some serious second thoughts about having kids. I think life is way too short to just stay in a relationship that a person is not happy with or is doubtful about.

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- The human gene pool could use a little chlorine

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Miss_Hannigan
Also, the best bit of advice I read is this - if he would desert a loving, stable relationship in favor of somebody he doesn't even know and quite possibly might not even like (a baby) then kick him to the curb.

THIS.

http://www.happilychildfree.com/faq.htm#48

I'm in a somewhat similar situation as you. My boyfriend of well over a year isn't super CF like me but he has more CF friends than I do, has never expressed an interest in children, definately has no interest in them now, and has shelved the idea for later. He told me the other night that he was "fairly certain that his gene line was going to die off" and that he didn't even really think about it very much. Unlike in your situation, I have gone over my CFness with my boyfriend MANY times in several different ways and he has reassured me that I am the one for him - in fact, he wishes I didn't feel so guilty about it, it makes him sad that I feel upset about not being able to possibly somewhere down the line give him something he wants. So there we are. I get the distinct impression that he has or is mentally bidding a fond adieu to the parenthood idea so that he can be with me and isn't even upset about it. Every relationship requires sacrifices, from both partners (I'm 33, he's about to turn 30).

(I'm fortunate in that my BF is in a career where having children is a ridiculous decision and totally unfair to the mom because he is gone for well over 6 months a year; and he'll be in it for at least another 9 years; if he and I stay together, he's not going to be home all the time until I am over 40. I ain't having no kids over 40!!)

I am totally with Yurble's first post - CF women are not on a timeclock and don't have to accomplish lifegoals or lifescripts that have to do with family dynamics, mating, reproducing, etc. All we have to do is sit back and enjoy the rides we get. I say stay and see where it ends up; if it ends, regardless of reason, then it was supposed to end and you're free to find someone else. Nothing in life is guaranteed. If it works out, then it works out. But no relationship is perfect and no two partners are exactly alike.

If you really want to get sterilized, I say go for it, your boyfriend doesn't need a say in that decision. Who knows, somewhere down the line he might even come to really appreciate the fact that you did it. If he doesn't, well, you know the saying: If you love something, set it free.

No decision you make here is going to be the wrong one. I certainly understand why you would stay. I'll cross my fingers for you, and as long as everything else in your relationship is spot on (and he doesn't start grousing or bingoeing you or resenting you - at that point it is time to hit the road), I think you'll be fine.

PS - in a way I can see your BF's point of view on the geezer breeder. As long as the kyd is in a loving supportive environment and is taken care of, more power to old guy having kids. I sure as fuck ain't having them, so if someone else out there wants to continue the species, have at it as long as they're doin it right.

Also from Happily Childfree:

Step 10: Face the facts that if you are in a Fencesitter Relationship, you might have to break up. This is a deal breaker -- it's not something you can compromise on. It is a tragedy when someone has a kid they don't want because they gave in to pressure. So to the party who doesn't want kids: don't give in unless you decide you really want a child. All children should be wanted!

If someone wanted to leave me for just the mere idea of a child they didn't even know and might not even like, I would be so offended I wouldn't even want to stay with them. If the idea of another person seems better to them than me, obviously they don't really love me and I don't want to be with someone like that! I deserve someone who loves me and thinks I'm good enough to make them happy. So do you!

If your spouse pulled this on you, I'm so sorry. But don't take it personally. If someone is willing to throw a good marriage away for some "Kodak moment" stuck in their heads, they aren't much of a loss to begin with. Obviously they felt what they had with you wasn't all that great to begin with or they wouldn't be so quick to give it up. If it hadn't been this, they'd have found some other excuse to leave and you are better off without them. Even if it doesn't feel this way right now.

Many times these people are the "grass is always greener" folks. They are always looking for something better than what they have now and they'll never be satisfied. What they are essentially saying is, "Honey, I'm going out to look for a someone else. I haven't met this person yet, and I don't know if they'll be good looking, if we'll have anything in common, or if I'll even like them very much, but I'm pretty sure it'll be better than what we have now." OUCH! But like I said, try to realize that you're far better off without someone like that. They'll never be satisfied and in a few years, when your life is going well and fabulous, you'll probably run into them at a grocery store with screaming kids and looking all harried and unhappy and you can just smile and pat yourself on the back for dodging that bullet. (Note: I'm not saying all parents are unhappy, but "grass is always greener" people are rarely satisfied because they can never be content with what they already have.)

Breaking up is painful, but sometimes it has to be done.

http://www.happilychildfree.com/fencesitters.htm

For the record, I was married to a wannabreed man who was uber fundamentalist and eventually began bingoing me to death. What Phoena says here is right on.

What law1204 posted from Happily Childfree above reminded me of a former boyfriend. He was about 20, movie star good looks, worked out all of the time and it showed, etc........Anyway, shortly after I started dating him and just about the time I thought that we were really hitting if off is when he dropped the bomb that he had just found out that the girlfriend before me was knocked up and he was all beaming about it. He was SO ecstatic about becoming a duddy that he didn't even seem to notice that I REALLY liked him and was more announcing her inpigness to me AS IF I was going to say, "How wonderful! I am SO happy for you!" It was actually kind of surreal. Anyway, I just sat there listening to him babble on about "doing the right thing", and "A baybee changes everything...", etc........I was so in awe of his blatant stupidity that I wasn't even bothered by the whole thing afterwards and we just went our separate ways.

About 3 years later while shopping at Walmart, I heard his familiar voice and started looking around to say hello to him. I was FLOORED when I realized that he and his INPIG wife AND a snotfaced toddler was the famblee that had been right in front of me the entire time. It was so stereotypical, but probably the first time that I had witnessed the result of a life script follower. This guy was completely unrecognizable. He looked at least 35 and was only about 23, he was HUGE and all blubbery and out of shape and at LEAST 75 pounds over weight, he had this cheesy looking mustache that looked like shit, his hair was all stringy and limp looking, and he was all soft and pasty. An awkward conversation followed with his fugly, fat assed, inpig wife looking quite unhappy about his speaking to anyone else.

It seems that he had dropped out of college, was working as a used car salesman at the shittiest lot in town, and also worked the graveyard shift at the corner 7-11 he informed me when he asked for me to "stop in some time". I don't FUCKING think so! It's amazing how many promising lives have been ruined by people insisting on shitting loaves or causing loaves to be shat when they are late teens-early twenties.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

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kidlesskim
It was so stereotypical, but probably the first time that I had witnessed the result of a life script follower. This guy was completely unrecognizable. He looked at least 35 and was only about 23, he was HUGE and all blubbery and out of shape and at LEAST 75 pounds over weight, he had this cheesy looking mustache that looked like shit, his hair was all stringy and limp looking, and he was all soft and pasty.

Unfortunate, but think of it being akin to the life cycle of a salmon: a brief, appealing youth, then they breed and rapidly decline to a life not worth living. In fact, their lives tend to be shorter than those who have made tenable life choices, copping to obesity, diabetes and heart issues.

If YOU want Essure, you should do it. It's YOUR body and YOUR future, not his, and he basically has no say in it.

If he dumps you because you got it done, count yourself lucky, because you dodged a bullet.

(My .02)

I had this bf in my twenties who would go on about his plans for the future in a field that would not be conducive to family life at all. I wasn't sure where he was in pursuing that goal but he was quite excited about it. He seemed to like to be around kyds but never expressed any desire for them to me. So I met someone working in the field of his interest and got some good information together and this person said he would meet with my boyfriend. I was so excited to help my bf. When I told him about this guy who could help him and I gave him the info, he flipped out. He rolled his eyes, started tossing papers around and said all that stuff was unrealistic. He said all he wanted for the future is to go to work every day and come home to his kyds. Oh. my. dog. He lived this entire alternative fantasy life, to impress women I suppose, when it was ALL a LIE. He ended up twice divorced and in court all the time with custody and support issues.

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blondie
I had this bf in my twenties who would go on about his plans for the future in a field that would not be conducive to family life at all. I wasn't sure where he was in pursuing that goal but he was quite excited about it. He seemed to like to be around kyds but never expressed any desire for them to me. So I met someone working in the field of his interest and got some good information together and this person said he would meet with my boyfriend. I was so excited to help my bf. When I told him about this guy who could help him and I gave him the info, he flipped out. He rolled his eyes, started tossing papers around and said all that stuff was unrealistic. He said all he wanted for the future is to go to work every day and come home to his kyds. Oh. my. dog. He lived this entire alternative fantasy life, to impress women I suppose, when it was ALL a LIE. He ended up twice divorced and in court all the time with custody and support issues.

What field was he interested in? Law? Medicine? Show-business?

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

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kidlesskim
What law1204 posted from Happily Childfree above reminded me of a former boyfriend. He was about 20, movie star good looks, worked out all of the time and it showed, etc........Anyway, shortly after I started dating him and just about the time I thought that we were really hitting if off is when he dropped the bomb that he had just found out that the girlfriend before me was knocked up and he was all beaming about it. He was SO ecstatic about becoming a duddy that he didn't even seem to notice that I REALLY liked him and was more announcing her inpigness to me AS IF I was going to say, "How wonderful! I am SO happy for you!" It was actually kind of surreal. Anyway, I just sat there listening to him babble on about "doing the right thing", and "A baybee changes everything...", etc........I was so in awe of his blatant stupidity that I wasn't even bothered by the whole thing afterwards and we just went our separate ways.

About 3 years later while shopping at Walmart, I heard his familiar voice and started looking around to say hello to him. I was FLOORED when I realized that he and his INPIG wife AND a snotfaced toddler was the famblee that had been right in front of me the entire time. It was so stereotypical, but probably the first time that I had witnessed the result of a life script follower. This guy was completely unrecognizable. He looked at least 35 and was only about 23, he was HUGE and all blubbery and out of shape and at LEAST 75 pounds over weight, he had this cheesy looking mustache that looked like shit, his hair was all stringy and limp looking, and he was all soft and pasty. An awkward conversation followed with his fugly, fat assed, inpig wife looking quite unhappy about his speaking to anyone else.

It seems that he had dropped out of college, was working as a used car salesman at the shittiest lot in town, and also worked the graveyard shift at the corner 7-11 he informed me when he asked for me to "stop in some time". I don't FUCKING think so! It's amazing how many promising lives have been ruined by people insisting on shitting loaves or causing loaves to be shat when they are late teens-early twenties.

A baby sure does change everything... and not for the better. Looks like this guy found out that parenthood completely destroys your life and makes you look like an obese wax mannequin at Madame Tussauds.

Of course this miserable lout wanted you to "stop in some time" and...er..."visit" him. What do you think his side of the conversation would have been like, without the clingy wife nearby? Probably more like a plea for deliverance. Sucks to be him. eyes2

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SlumSlut
What field was he interested in? Law? Medicine? Show-business?

It's a little too specific to reveal here but it was an adventure-related field, kind of dangerous but not outrageous.The guy was such a pussy, I don't know why I bought it, just naive I suppose. But the joke was on me because he thought I knew it wasn't real and that everybody just wants to live a boring breeder life. Other people seemed to know he was full of shit but I don't see any reason people cannot follow nontraditonal paths. Ahh, life in suburban breederville :smn

I third the notion that YOU get the essure procedure quick before he tries to OOOPS! trap *you* into a pregnancy.

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lab mom

Add me to the crowd of voices saying that you should get the sterilization for yourself. He may end up leaving, but you will always have your sterilization.

I agree - get the Essure done, and then tell him AFTER you get the procedure. Then he can decide if you mean more to him than a potential baybee...if you're still number one, then yay! If not, you dodged a bullet. And he can't oops you if you're sterile, so yay again! The guy has probably never spent a considerable amount of time around children. Ask him, if he were to have kids, how he'd feel about being a SAHD. See if you have any friends with infants or toddlers who'd be willing to let him babysit the kid for a few days. Really let him get a taste of what child-rearing is...oh, and he wouldn't be paid to babysit either. Because that's what parenting is: unpaid babysitting. Forever.

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Cambion
I agree - get the Essure done, and then tell him AFTER you get the procedure. Then he can decide if you mean more to him than a potential baybee...if you're still number one, then yay! If not, you dodged a bullet. And he can't oops you if you're sterile, so yay again! The guy has probably never spent a considerable amount of time around children. Ask him, if he were to have kids, how he'd feel about being a SAHD. See if you have any friends with infants or toddlers who'd be willing to let him babysit the kid for a few days. Really let him get a taste of what child-rearing is...oh, and he wouldn't be paid to babysit either. Because that's what parenting is: unpaid babysitting. Forever.

I say get it and don't tell him. Make him wonder why the super swimmers aren't working ...

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thom_c

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Cambion
I agree - get the Essure done, and then tell him AFTER you get the procedure. Then he can decide if you mean more to him than a potential baybee...if you're still number one, then yay! If not, you dodged a bullet. And he can't oops you if you're sterile, so yay again! The guy has probably never spent a considerable amount of time around children. Ask him, if he were to have kids, how he'd feel about being a SAHD. See if you have any friends with infants or toddlers who'd be willing to let him babysit the kid for a few days. Really let him get a taste of what child-rearing is...oh, and he wouldn't be paid to babysit either. Because that's what parenting is: unpaid babysitting. Forever.

I say get it and don't tell him. Make him wonder why the super swimmers aren't working ...

Seconded! It's your body.

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Cambion
I agree - get the Essure done, and then tell him AFTER you get the procedure. Then he can decide if you mean more to him than a potential baybee...if you're still number one, then yay! If not, you dodged a bullet. And he can't oops you if you're sterile, so yay again! The guy has probably never spent a considerable amount of time around children. Ask him, if he were to have kids, how he'd feel about being a SAHD. See if you have any friends with infants or toddlers who'd be willing to let him babysit the kid for a few days. Really let him get a taste of what child-rearing is...oh, and he wouldn't be paid to babysit either. Because that's what parenting is: unpaid babysitting. Forever.

This x 10. Have some nieces and nephews over for the weekend and have *him* help out and participate in whatever is going on.

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ShimmyMuse

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thom_c

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Cambion
I agree - get the Essure done, and then tell him AFTER you get the procedure. Then he can decide if you mean more to him than a potential baybee...if you're still number one, then yay! If not, you dodged a bullet. And he can't oops you if you're sterile, so yay again! The guy has probably never spent a considerable amount of time around children. Ask him, if he were to have kids, how he'd feel about being a SAHD. See if you have any friends with infants or toddlers who'd be willing to let him babysit the kid for a few days. Really let him get a taste of what child-rearing is...oh, and he wouldn't be paid to babysit either. Because that's what parenting is: unpaid babysitting. Forever.

I say get it and don't tell him. Make him wonder why the super swimmers aren't working ...

Seconded! It's your body.

wink

Wow! Thank you all for the advice!! No, really, THANK YOU ^^

The thing is, my previous relationship fell apart because he dropped the "I want to have children" bombshell. Granted, it was for the best, as I was planning to emigrate to another country (hell, another continent!) to be with him, but still, him telling me "well, I decided I do want to have a family someday, and with you that won't be possible" while I was sorting out my visa and had just turned down some amazing internship offers, came totally out of left field. So, no, I don't want to go through this again, that's why I felt there was something to be resolved in the current situation. If it weren't for my previous experience, I would just lay back and go with the flow, since I'm in no hurry to get married or anything, and what I really want is to enjoy my days as they come. But it hurts planning about the future just to have it all blow up in your face.

The good thing is we had a long talk and I'm a tad more confident about the whole situation -not totally reassured, but much more confident. We both use contraception** so there's no chance of oopsing. I'm getting Essure done no matter what -that is, as soon as I find a) the money to pay for it and b) a doctor who is willing to perform it (sadly, there are very few doctors doing Essure where I live, all of them privately, but more on that in another rant). If he wants to walk after that, fine, but he said he wouldn't and I believe him. He claims it's unnecessary because he thinks I may suffer in the future, in the odd chance I change my mind, not because I don't really believe what I'm saying now, but because hormones will take over me (he believes that breeding is mainly hormonal and we're programmed to want it and all that, though he does recognize that some people just don't fall for it).

Thankfully, right now he wants to be with me and beyond any doubt (his choice of words) does not want a kid, now or in the next few years (he then added 'probably not ever, but I can't forsee the future'). He does have an issue with long-term plans in general, maybe that's why he's hesitant to guarantee that he won't change his mind (although he admitted that life is far more enjoyable without kids, and that leaving an otherwise fulfilling relationship to have a kid with someone else -someone he has yet to meet- does not make much sense). Dunno. For the time being, I can live with that. And after the baby-sitting duties that are just around the corner, I'm sure we'll have a lot more to talk about

**about both of us using contraception, I've had boyfriends in the past telling me that I was overreacting. He, on the other hand, was the first to share my viewpoint. Another good sign in my book.

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He claims it's unnecessary because he thinks I may suffer in the future, in the odd chance I change my mind, not because I don't really believe what I'm saying now, but because hormones will take over me (he believes that breeding is mainly hormonal and we're programmed to want it and all that, though he does recognize that some people just don't fall for it).

All the more reason to have it done while you're thinking with your BRAIN, instead of your hormones doing the thinking for you.

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he then added 'probably not ever, but I can't forsee the future

Translation: "Keep the pussy coming"

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

I agree with getting the Essure but don't see the reason behind the "don't tell him about it". If it is "your body", why the subterfuge or sin of omission against ones' own beliefs?

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kokoretsi
He claims it's unnecessary because he thinks I may suffer in the future, in the odd chance I change my mind, not because I don't really believe what I'm saying now, but because hormones will take over me (he believes that breeding is mainly hormonal and we're programmed to want it and all that, though he does recognize that some people just don't fall for it).

Yeah, well, I guess he feels such concerns are his way of showing he "cares", but - so what? Those are his speculations and worries about your future (throwing in a considerable dose of attempted control), not your certainties and beliefs.

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kokoretsi
I'm getting Essure done no matter what -that is, as soon as I find a) the money to pay for it and b) a doctor who is willing to perform it (sadly, there are very few doctors doing Essure where I live, all of them privately, but more on that in another rant). If he wants to walk after that, fine, but he said he wouldn't and I believe him.

Excellent
Your actions could be considered a good exercise for him to fish or cut bait about what he really wants. He will be with a woman who will not be able to bear his children (unless extraordinary measures are taken after you've done a complete 180 with your thinking). Right now he has the amorphous "well, maybe she ...." or "there's still the possibility...." way of thinking. Take that away from him and he will have to come to a certitude about his own beliefs.

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SlumSlut

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He claims it's unnecessary because he thinks I may suffer in the future, in the odd chance I change my mind, not because I don't really believe what I'm saying now, but because hormones will take over me (he believes that breeding is mainly hormonal and we're programmed to want it and all that, though he does recognize that some people just don't fall for it).

All the more reason to have it done while you're thinking with your BRAIN, instead of your hormones doing the thinking for you.

That's what I've always said to people who told me that I'd change my mind: "I hope in that case I would have had the good sense to do something to prevent it while I was still of sound mind."

Of course many of us here are living proof that the whole biological clock thing doesn't exist for everyone, even if it may exist for some.

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yurble

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SlumSlut

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He claims it's unnecessary because he thinks I may suffer in the future, in the odd chance I change my mind, not because I don't really believe what I'm saying now, but because hormones will take over me (he believes that breeding is mainly hormonal and we're programmed to want it and all that, though he does recognize that some people just don't fall for it).

All the more reason to have it done while you're thinking with your BRAIN, instead of your hormones doing the thinking for you.

That's what I've always said to people who told me that I'd change my mind: "I hope in that case I would have had the good sense to do something to prevent it while I was still of sound mind."

Of course many of us here are living proof that the whole biological clock thing doesn't exist for everyone, even if it may exist for some.

I can barely deal with stress in my life in the first place. Even if my clock did start to tick, or whatever is supposed to happen, I look around and can't figure out the first thing to do to re-arrange my life. So many sharp things in the house. Too much clutter already. I can barely go to work and come home and eat and sleep and take care of the cats and do all the other mundane every-day things such as errands and visiting my grandfather in the nursing home AS IT IS ALREADY, and I'm supposed to have the time to add a KID to all that? A kid I don't even WANT, but some chemicals in my bloodstream are telling me i GOTTA have? What if I snorted some ecstasy and decided I just GOTTA have a kid? Would that be a good idea, or not?

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

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SlumSlut
I can barely deal with stress in my life in the first place. Even if my clock did start to tick, or whatever is supposed to happen, I look around and can't figure out the first thing to do to re-arrange my life. So many sharp things in the house. Too much clutter already. I can barely go to work and come home and eat and sleep and take care of the cats and do all the other mundane every-day things such as errands and visiting my grandfather in the nursing home AS IT IS ALREADY, and I'm supposed to have the time to add a KID to all that? A kid I don't even WANT, but some chemicals in my bloodstream are telling me i GOTTA have? What if I snorted some ecstasy and decided I just GOTTA have a kid? Would that be a good idea, or not?

I quit work a few weeks back (5 years in preparation and actually a couple years earlier than anticipated but I was thisclose to just going completely and irrecoverably batshit from the stress) and we've downsized to a smaller dwelling. What I've discovered in this brief time is how nice it is to start slowing down. No freaking way I'd be willing to just jump on another (even worse, IMO) hamster wheel.

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Dorisan

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SlumSlut
I can barely deal with stress in my life in the first place. Even if my clock did start to tick, or whatever is supposed to happen, I look around and can't figure out the first thing to do to re-arrange my life. So many sharp things in the house. Too much clutter already. I can barely go to work and come home and eat and sleep and take care of the cats and do all the other mundane every-day things such as errands and visiting my grandfather in the nursing home AS IT IS ALREADY, and I'm supposed to have the time to add a KID to all that? A kid I don't even WANT, but some chemicals in my bloodstream are telling me i GOTTA have? What if I snorted some ecstasy and decided I just GOTTA have a kid? Would that be a good idea, or not?

I quit work a few weeks back (5 years in preparation and actually a couple years earlier than anticipated but I was thisclose to just going completely and irrecoverably batshit from the stress) and we've downsized to a smaller dwelling. What I've discovered in this brief time is how nice it is to start slowing down. No freaking way I'd be willing to just jump on another (even worse, IMO) hamster wheel.

But you didn't answer the question Dorisan. Is it a good idea to decide to have a kid because of snorting some ecstasy, or NOT? Hmm?

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

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SlumSlut

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yurble
That's what I've always said to people who told me that I'd change my mind: "I hope in that case I would have had the good sense to do something to prevent it while I was still of sound mind."

Of course many of us here are living proof that the whole biological clock thing doesn't exist for everyone, even if it may exist for some.

I can barely deal with stress in my life in the first place. Even if my clock did start to tick, or whatever is supposed to happen, I look around and can't figure out the first thing to do to re-arrange my life. So many sharp things in the house. Too much clutter already. I can barely go to work and come home and eat and sleep and take care of the cats and do all the other mundane every-day things such as errands and visiting my grandfather in the nursing home AS IT IS ALREADY, and I'm supposed to have the time to add a KID to all that? A kid I don't even WANT, but some chemicals in my bloodstream are telling me i GOTTA have? What if I snorted some ecstasy and decided I just GOTTA have a kid? Would that be a good idea, or not?

Of course we know that breeders are hardly the most rational bunch...I doubt any of those arguments would dent the decision of a serious breeder.

I like to think that if my hormones started playing mind games with me my rational side would overrule them (and I think it would, because I have made difficult decisions rationally in the past), but I can't say I know for sure, because it's never been put to the test. I'm so glad I'm one of those people who doesn't get the baby twinges, so my mind is not in conflict with my body on that issue.

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SlumSlut

I can barely deal with stress in my life in the first place. Even if my clock did start to tick, or whatever is supposed to happen, I look around and can't figure out the first thing to do to re-arrange my life. So many sharp things in the house. Too much clutter already. I can barely go to work and come home and eat and sleep and take care of the cats and do all the other mundane every-day things such as errands and visiting my grandfather in the nursing home AS IT IS ALREADY, and I'm supposed to have the time to add a KID to all that? A kid I don't even WANT, but some chemicals in my bloodstream are telling me i GOTTA have? What if I snorted some ecstasy and decided I just GOTTA have a kid? Would that be a good idea, or not?

Neither can they!(deal with the stress) The difference between those of us childfree who are stressed to the limits and the moo-cunts who are stressed to their limits is that we admit it and don't purposely try to make matters worse! To shit a loaf in the middle of chaos leads to postpartum depression, moo substance abuse, child neglect and abuse, as well as locked in hot car syndrome, bath tub drownings, and other "accidents". They are too selfish to think ahead to what's best for their potential loaf of shit and prefer instead to focus on THEMSELVES and all of the temporary attention and festivities like over fed cattle to the slaughter. Like the cows don't question all of the food and attention before they are shot between the eyes or have their throats slit, neither do the moos as they cascade their fat asses around various baybee showers and parties.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!