Why moms cheat on their man the day after Mother's Day

http://www.momlogic.com/2010/05/day_after_mothers_day_huge_signup_day_ashley_madison.php


UPDATE: 31,427 women signed up for AshleyMadison.com the day after Mother's Day, Ashley Madison reps tell momlogic.

AshleyMadison.com, the dating website for married people, tells momlogic exclusively that the day after Mother's Day is the second-busiest day of the year for female member signups.

On a typical Monday, between 2,500 and 3,000 women join AshleyMadison.com. But on the day after Mother's Day last year, AshleyMadison.com saw close to 24,000 new signups. They anticipate that 30,000 women will join this year on May 10 -- the day after Mother's Day.

This "day after" trend is nothing new to AshleyMadison.com: Their biggest day of the year for female signups is the day after Valentine's Day, and their third-biggest day is the day after New Year's.

Why are holidays like these such turning points for women? Noel Biderman, president and founder of AshleyMadison.com, says, "Because they have expectations -- expectations that their partnership will be celebrated and even romanticized -- but that is often not what transpires ...."

Biderman (a married father of two) believes there are several reasons why women turn to AshleyMadison.com after Mother's Day in particular:

•On Mother's Day, women in general expect to be celebrated by their partners. However, for many already suffering from a lack of appreciation, this day represents a continuation of neglect and disappointment.

•Women have affairs for different reasons than men. Whereas men are usually looking for sex, women tend to seek attention that they're not getting at home. This lack of attention often makes them feel undesirable -- and feeds their need for validation.

Last Mother's Day, momlogic spoke with a woman who said that Mother's Day ended her marriage. "I knew Mother's Day was off to a bad start when my husband informed me the night before that the holiday had nothing to do with him and it should be between me and the kids. In the morning, I was handed a cold cup of coffee by my husband. My card and gift were left downstairs. The card and gift had been bought hours earlier, after my husband asked me, "So, what do you want, anyway?" No thought, no advance planning, no special effort put forth at all. It was so disappointing. I chose to sleep on the couch that night. My husband chose to move out. Mother's Day essentially marked the end of our marriage." Read her full story here.

Is there any way to help ensure that you won't be disappointed on Mother's Day by your partner? Psychologist Dr. Michelle Golland says that you have to speak up! "I think it is important for moms to share with their husbands what they would enjoy for Mothers Day," she says. "If you want a day off or breakfast in bed, say so. I told my husband what I would enjoy to do, and I of course will reciprocate for him on Father's Day. For some reason, we WISH our partners were mind readers. But guess what? They aren't! So share with them what really matters this year to you."

Biderman says that he plans to step it up for his own wife even more this Mother's Day. "The ironic thing about running Ashley Madison is that I -- maybe more than any guy on the planet -- am so aware of what transpires when you neglect your partner," he says. "As a husband and father, I personally look forward to Mother's Day as an incredible opportunity to celebrate our family dynamic, my wife's dedication and our interpersonal relationship. I intend to make my wife smile from the moment she wakes up -- hopefully a bit later than usual -- to the moment she goes to bed ... with me!"

But even if your guy comes up short, Dr. Golland warns moms to think before they cheat. "Cheating on your spouse will only further complicate a challenging situation -- and add more carnage to your marital problems," she says. "The damage created by an affair is very difficult to repair. That is not to say that repair after infidelity is impossible, but to rebuild the trust after such a traumatic event is hard. Statistics show that many marriages do not survive this level of betrayal."

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Like Moos don't get their ass kissed enough.

Yanno...sometimes I really hate women and the stupid shit they pull in relationships, which gives a bad name to the rest of us low-maintenance women. In my relationship, not only are there NO expectations around stupid commercial holidays or any other made-up holiday or anniversary, but I like to take control of my OWN life. "Honey, I decided to make reservations for dinner at XXX restaurant since etc etc." "Hey hun, look at this cute ring I bought myself, isn't it cool??"

Why can't women have a say in their own lives and take charge? If you want something, buy it, don't wait for some guy to give it to you. If you want a specific food, go get it. If you like a certain restaurant, make reservations there. If the mayun doesn't want to go, fuck him and invite a girlfriend. This is not hard, people! Stop treating men like they are your personal Genie slave that you rubbed out of a bottle, there to kiss your ass and lick your toes on demand and shower you with gifts, compliments, and trips. Self esteem is a way better thing to have than a coerced dinner plan from a guy who did it because it was expected.

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Is there any way to help ensure that you won't be disappointed on Mother's Day by your partner? Psychologist Dr. Michelle Golland says that you have to speak up! "I think it is important for moms to share with their husbands what they would enjoy for Mothers Day," she says. "If you want a day off or breakfast in bed, say so. I told my husband what I would enjoy to do, and I of course will reciprocate for him on Father's Day. For some reason, we WISH our partners were mind readers. But guess what? They aren't! So share with them what really matters this year to you."

This is the part that I wonder about. Do they give, or do they just expect to receive? Like with the moo in the example listed above this one - does she roll out the red carpet on Father's Day, or does she just half-ass it and then get pissed when her husband does the same?

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"Not every ejaculation deserves a name" - George Carlin

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law1204
Yanno...sometimes I really hate women and the stupid shit they pull in relationships, which gives a bad name to the rest of us low-maintenance women. In my relationship, not only are there NO expectations around stupid commercial holidays or any other made-up holiday or anniversary, but I like to take control of my OWN life. "Honey, I decided to make reservations for dinner at XXX restaurant since etc etc." "Hey hun, look at this cute ring I bought myself, isn't it cool??"

Why can't women have a say in their own lives and take charge? If you want something, buy it, don't wait for some guy to give it to you. If you want a specific food, go get it. If you like a certain restaurant, make reservations there. If the mayun doesn't want to go, fuck him and invite a girlfriend. This is not hard, people! Stop treating men like they are your personal Genie slave that you rubbed out of a bottle, there to kiss your ass and lick your toes on demand and shower you with gifts, compliments, and trips. Self esteem is a way better thing to have than a coerced dinner plan from a guy who did it because it was expected.

I completely agree. My SO and I don't do anything for Valentine's day. We do give birthday and Christmas gifts, but usually homemade things, like coupons for backrubs. There's no real obligation to buy something fancy.

Of course it is nice if he brings me something unexpected, which he does maybe once a year. Recently, for instance, he found a new second-hand bookshop and so he bought me everything they had which was on my want list. Maybe some people wouldn't find it 'romantic,' but I'm much happier with this surprise gift than I would be with any ritualized exchange. There's nothing spontaneous about delivering a very narrow range of things (jewelry, perfume, flowers, dinner) on a designated day.

If I feel like some flowers would brighten up the house, I buy some. If I think it would be nice to go out for a meal, I suggest it, we check our schedules, and then figure out when would be a good time. Or, sometimes I just go with a friend (because of course we have our own lives). I'm an adult, and I earn an income. I can get things for myself...except maybe for those backrubs, but he gives me plenty of those.

There's a good reason that I don't feel like I have much in common with most women.

I also don't get why the husbands are expected to do something for mother's day. Isn't that the day you're supposed to smile at your child's burned attempts at breakfast and crappy handmade gifts? I mean, you are not your husband's mother, so why does it have anything to do with him?

I think that it's SHITTY for a husband not to acknowledge the moomare of his brats on Mother's Day for several reasons. 1)You can bet your ass that he expects and gets royal treatment on Father's day. whether it's a special dinner and/or a gift. If he's like my father, then he buys HIMSELF something like an entire set of golf clubs or a boat motor in addition to the regular stuff that my mother and we give him. 2)As much as I dislike "Hallmark Holidays" and realize that most all of these "holidays" are a media marketing tool, it HAS become a "holiday" recognized by the general population, so to ignore it seems a bit cruel.3)To NOT acknowledge it some way relays the message that the moo of his calves is unimportant to him because you know that every husband alive has to know that Mother's Day important to his wife, and of course to his own mother as well. I don't think that this particular case is so much moo related as it is bad marriage related since the number one most popular time for moos to sign up is after Valentine's Day.

In addition, it's sends an even MORE clear message when he takes the nasty attitude that the man mentioned has because if in the beginning he used to recognize it and now doesn't, he may as well just outright say that he doesn't give a shit anymore. I am so glad that I don't have to deal with this shit! My ex husband, being the dickhead that he is, had the attitude re; Mother's day that his ex-moo wasn't HIS mother, so therefore he never acknowledged her on Moo day(even while they were married) NOR did he ever assist his daughter or any of his stepbrats to get her anything either. As much as I enjoyed it when that miserable moomare suffered, I always thought that was shitty of him. albeit it typical behavior for him.

However, maybe the reason they don't get shit is because they are shitty moos and shitty wives, I can't be sure. In general though, especially if it's a PNB, I think it's a nice gesture to at least give the moo a card or at the very least, get the kyds something to give her or make her if they are too young to be able to do it themselves. JMO

eta:Regardless if she gets a moo day present or not, CHEATING is not the answer.IMHO.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

Some guys probably realize that Mother's Day is a useless fucking holiday because being a mother is a useless fucking life choice. Breeding is something every single person in the world is capable of doing, so why celebrate it? Women who come to expect gifts from their partners without actually telling them they want something or the "holiday" are setting themselves up for disappointment; women seem to expect men to know exactly what they want, when they want it and how they want it without putting a bug in their ear. Some guys won't do anything at all because they think their wives want nothing at all, and others will try to please her but end up pissing her off because he didn't get the exact thing she wanted. Basically, men can't win with Moo-wives. They probably don't do anything for them because they tried in the past to be nice, but their efforts were met with screaming, tears, withheld sex, passive-aggression and the cold shoulder...so they just quit even trying.

I'm not trying to paint all women and men with the same brush, because obviously we aren't all the same. But I've just noticed the Moos who bitch the most about their husbands doing nothing for them often don't even throw them a bone (and most likely don't even do anything for them either as "revenge"). And the husbands tend to be the kind you have to tell very clearly what you want, not make them play twenty questions.

I agree with lawl...if a woman wants something for some holiday, she should just get it herself. Take a personal day...if the husband doesn't want to go out, then go alone or with a friend. Go to dinner and a movie, go to a spa, go shopping, or whatever the hell you want to do. These women seem so helpless sometimes and then the husband is amde out to be the bad guy.

On the other hand, some men probably do expect to be treated like deities on Father's Day, but only put in almost a half-assed effort on Moother's Day. But some of the women these guys are married to are the bitchiest whores ever to walk the earth and probably don't deserve any praise, so maybe it's fair. I don't know. All I know is this is a holiday I won't ever have to worry about.

Yeah hubby and I don't do the commercial holiday thing either. For my birthday recently we went out for sushi and for his birthday on Saturday I'm making him his favorite breakfast in bed. And that's the extent of it. For Valentines day we have this ridiculous tradition of not making reservations anywhere then driving around all night looking for somewhere with tables. Last Valentines day we ended up dressed to the nines at 10 at night eating gyros in a local diner. We do it because it's fun and light hearted and doesn't put too much pressure to have 'the perfect date' every Valentines day.

As for mother's day and father's day, I think it should be up to the couple to decide. If you're married to somebody and this particular day is very important to that person (and come on, if you're married to somebody it's your job to know what days are important to them) then I think it's logical to make a big fuss over it. Maybe not spend a great deal of money but just let the person you're supposed to love know that they're really important to you in whatever way you can. How difficult is that, honestly?

What I personally dislike is women that expect bloody diamonds (I hate diamonds anyway but that's a different rant) / long stemmed roses / other expensive trinkets for everything. Or even worse are the people (male AND female) that go "oh... I don't want anything..." then get pissed when they don't get anything.

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Dogsmeow2
Yeah hubby and I don't do the commercial holiday thing either. For my birthday recently we went out for sushi and for his birthday on Saturday I'm making him his favorite breakfast in bed. And that's the extent of it. For Valentines day we have this ridiculous tradition of not making reservations anywhere then driving around all night looking for somewhere with tables. Last Valentines day we ended up dressed to the nines at 10 at night eating gyros in a local diner. We do it because it's fun and light hearted and doesn't put too much pressure to have 'the perfect date' every Valentines day.

As for mother's day and father's day, I think it should be up to the couple to decide. If you're married to somebody and this particular day is very important to that person (and come on, if you're married to somebody it's your job to know what days are important to them) then I think it's logical to make a big fuss over it. Maybe not spend a great deal of money but just let the person you're supposed to love know that they're really important to you in whatever way you can. How difficult is that, honestly?

What I personally dislike is women that expect bloody diamonds (I hate diamonds anyway but that's a different rant) / long stemmed roses / other expensive trinkets for everything.

I agree with this! That's how I feel about it too in that it's a "couple thing" and really should be about what is important to the individual and mutually agreed upon. Yeah, these bitches who expect a gift at every turn of event like this new expected blingfest when they shit a loaf has gotten way out of hand. I TOO hate diamonds and roses! I don't "get" the popularity of diamonds especially over colorful stones like rubies, sapphires, or emeralds! Roses make me think of a funeral parlor and while they are pretty flowers, they just stink like an old lady's purse!

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

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kidlesskim

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Dogsmeow2
Yeah hubby and I don't do the commercial holiday thing either. For my birthday recently we went out for sushi and for his birthday on Saturday I'm making him his favorite breakfast in bed. And that's the extent of it. For Valentines day we have this ridiculous tradition of not making reservations anywhere then driving around all night looking for somewhere with tables. Last Valentines day we ended up dressed to the nines at 10 at night eating gyros in a local diner. We do it because it's fun and light hearted and doesn't put too much pressure to have 'the perfect date' every Valentines day.

As for mother's day and father's day, I think it should be up to the couple to decide. If you're married to somebody and this particular day is very important to that person (and come on, if you're married to somebody it's your job to know what days are important to them) then I think it's logical to make a big fuss over it. Maybe not spend a great deal of money but just let the person you're supposed to love know that they're really important to you in whatever way you can. How difficult is that, honestly?

What I personally dislike is women that expect bloody diamonds (I hate diamonds anyway but that's a different rant) / long stemmed roses / other expensive trinkets for everything.

I agree with this! That's how I feel about it too in that it's a "couple thing" and really should be about what is important to the individual and mutually agreed upon. Yeah, these bitches who expect a gift at every turn of event like this new expected blingfest when they shit a loaf has gotten way out of hand. I TOO hate diamonds and roses! I don't "get" the popularity of diamonds especially over colorful stones like rubies, sapphires, or emeralds! Roses make me think of a funeral parlor and while they are pretty flowers, they just stink like an old lady's purse!

Sooo glad I'm not the only freak who hates diamonds and roses. My husband thought it was weird of me when I told him to never EVER get me diamonds or roses so I had to explain. Diamonds are just overpriced lumps of carbon, I vastly prefer sapphires (my birth stone). And flowers... I just don't like at all because they die. I'd rather enjoy the flowers planted in the ground around my house. My husband still insists on getting me blue orchids randomly every once in a while. I don't bitch because it's a nice gesture and they -are- pretty... I just hate when they shrivel up and have to be thrown out. It's a waste.

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Dogsmeow2

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kidlesskim

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Dogsmeow2
Yeah hubby and I don't do the commercial holiday thing either. For my birthday recently we went out for sushi and for his birthday on Saturday I'm making him his favorite breakfast in bed. And that's the extent of it. For Valentines day we have this ridiculous tradition of not making reservations anywhere then driving around all night looking for somewhere with tables. Last Valentines day we ended up dressed to the nines at 10 at night eating gyros in a local diner. We do it because it's fun and light hearted and doesn't put too much pressure to have 'the perfect date' every Valentines day.

As for mother's day and father's day, I think it should be up to the couple to decide. If you're married to somebody and this particular day is very important to that person (and come on, if you're married to somebody it's your job to know what days are important to them) then I think it's logical to make a big fuss over it. Maybe not spend a great deal of money but just let the person you're supposed to love know that they're really important to you in whatever way you can. How difficult is that, honestly?

What I personally dislike is women that expect bloody diamonds (I hate diamonds anyway but that's a different rant) / long stemmed roses / other expensive trinkets for everything.

I agree with this! That's how I feel about it too in that it's a "couple thing" and really should be about what is important to the individual and mutually agreed upon. Yeah, these bitches who expect a gift at every turn of event like this new expected blingfest when they shit a loaf has gotten way out of hand. I TOO hate diamonds and roses! I don't "get" the popularity of diamonds especially over colorful stones like rubies, sapphires, or emeralds! Roses make me think of a funeral parlor and while they are pretty flowers, they just stink like an old lady's purse!

Sooo glad I'm not the only freak who hates diamonds and roses. My husband thought it was weird of me when I told him to never EVER get me diamonds or roses so I had to explain. Diamonds are just overpriced lumps of carbon, I vastly prefer sapphires (my birth stone). And flowers... I just don't like at all because they die. I'd rather enjoy the flowers planted in the ground around my house. My husband still insists on getting me blue orchids randomly every once in a while. I don't bitch because it's a nice gesture and they -are- pretty... I just hate when they shrivel up and have to be thrown out. It's a waste.

That's the same reason that although I DO love certain flowers like daisies and orchids, I'd rather see them ALIVE and not cut and stuffed into a vase to die! That, and my cats will eat them and shit and vomit stems and petals all over the house. Relating to the topic about the man not giving anything for moo day, I think it's WORSE when a spouse knows that you don't like something (like roses or diamonds) YET, that's exactly what they give you anyway. That proves to me that they don't listen OR they don't care, or perhaps a combination of both. That, or they are being passive aggressive about it because what do you say to someone who hands you flowers and diamonds without sounding like an absolute bitch! If you complain about it, you come off as sounding rude, mean, or selfish, EVEN THOUGH you have told them repeatedly that you do not like whatever it is over the years.

Once, after I had slipped across the line of strong dislike to actual hatred for my last ex husband, on one of the NUMEROUS occasions when he did the "roses and diamonds" thing, I told him at that exact moment of the gift giving that I HATED roses and diamonds, always had, that he knew it, and to shove them up his ass. One would think after an explosion of that sort that I would never get roses or diamonds again, if anything. However, for FOUR MORE YEARS, I received probably 8-10 more rose-diamond combinations, but at least he couldn't pretend that he didn't know anymore! I would just say, "OH THANKS, MY FAVORITE!!!!!!!!!!", then right in front of him I would dump the roses in the trash and shove the jewelry in the junk drawer in the kitchen among the mismatched flatware. I suppose that by that point, it had become a sick game.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

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kidlesskim
That's the same reason that although I DO love certain flowers like daisies and orchids, I'd rather see them ALIVE and not cut and stuffed into a vase to die! That, and my cats will eat them and shit and vomit stems and petals all over the house. Relating to the topic about the man not giving anything for moo day, I think it's WORSE when a spouse knows that you don't like something (like roses or diamonds) YET, that's exactly what they give you anyway. That proves to me that they don't listen OR they don't care, or perhaps a combination of both. That, or they are being passive aggressive about it because what do you say to someone who hands you flowers and diamonds without sounding like an absolute bitch! If you complain about it, you come off as sounding rude, mean, or selfish, EVEN THOUGH you have told them repeatedly that you do not like whatever it is over the years.

I think it's usually a lack of imagination, although in your case, Kim, it sounds like there were clearly some other things going on.

I live in an apartment so it's sometimes nice (especially in the winter, when it is so grey outside) to have some flowers to brighten the room. However, I can buy them myself the 3 or 4 times a year that I want them, and it generally won't be roses.

I'm not a big fan of diamonds either. They're just another stone, and there are ethical issues connected to them.

There seems to be a significant overlap between the categories "childfree women" and "low maintence"/"doesn't like traditional romantic gestures".

I was disappointed this year. I had to work Talk like a Pirate day :bawl
I'm quite sure my DW is relieved she didn't have the romantic strains of YARRR! SURREDER THE BOOTY all day.

For our aniversery (number 15) we went skydiving!

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Miss_Hannigan

Biderman says that he plans to step it up for his own wife even more this Mother's Day. "The ironic thing about running Ashley Madison is that I -- maybe more than any guy on the planet -- am so aware of what transpires when you neglect your partner," he says. "As a husband and father, I personally look forward to Mother's Day as an incredible opportunity to celebrate our family dynamic, my wife's dedication and our interpersonal relationship. I intend to make my wife smile from the moment she wakes up -- hopefully a bit later than usual -- to the moment she goes to bed ... with me!"

But even if your guy comes up short, Dr. Golland warns moms to think before they cheat. "Cheating on your spouse will only further complicate a challenging situation -- and add more carnage to your marital problems," she says. "The damage created by an affair is very difficult to repair. That is not to say that repair after infidelity is impossible, but to rebuild the trust after such a traumatic event is hard. Statistics show that many marriages do not survive this level of betrayal."

__________________________________

Marriage is an unnatural human institution, and it is failing and failing quickly. Statistics demonstrate this.

Adding children+internet access+Ashleymadison.com+A pussy-whipped man+A talking head psychotherapist only serves to illustrate this particular example as being even more dysfunctional than the institution itself.

Mothers think EVERY day is mother's day.

Man, I KNOW I am on the right message board. I told my boyfriend Ixnay on the Iamondsday and while I like flowers, I don't really need any shriveled up ones in my house that just have to be thrown out. A living aloe vera plant or a cactus would be better!

"Recently, for instance, he found a new second-hand bookshop and so he bought me everything they had which was on my want list. Maybe some people wouldn't find it 'romantic,' but I'm much happier with this surprise gift than I would be with any ritualized exchange. There's nothing spontaneous about delivering a very narrow range of things (jewelry, perfume, flowers, dinner) on a designated day."

Yurble, your SO's gift is perfect. I completely agree and new books are totally romantic, I think!

I don't like diamonds that much. Roses are nice, but not really needed. I prefer chocolates, and just a nice dinner out. I'm pretty low maintenance, myself.

If we don't 'eat out', we just have a nice, gourmet steak dinner at home, for V day or our anniversary.

I asked my mom once, how she/we celebrated mother/fathers day, when we were little. She said she (or my dad) spent the day with us kids, and then ate out for dinner. That's a PNB for ya. They aren't very high maintenance, either. I guess it's just a breeder thing to be high maintenance and demand want their ass kissed.

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lab mom

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StudioFiftyFour

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Miss_Hannigan

Biderman says that he plans to step it up for his own wife even more this Mother's Day. "The ironic thing about running Ashley Madison is that I -- maybe more than any guy on the planet -- am so aware of what transpires when you neglect your partner," he says. "As a husband and father, I personally look forward to Mother's Day as an incredible opportunity to celebrate our family dynamic, my wife's dedication and our interpersonal relationship. I intend to make my wife smile from the moment she wakes up -- hopefully a bit later than usual -- to the moment she goes to bed ... with me!"

But even if your guy comes up short, Dr. Golland warns moms to think before they cheat. "Cheating on your spouse will only further complicate a challenging situation -- and add more carnage to your marital problems," she says. "The damage created by an affair is very difficult to repair. That is not to say that repair after infidelity is impossible, but to rebuild the trust after such a traumatic event is hard. Statistics show that many marriages do not survive this level of betrayal."

__________________________________

Marriage is an unnatural human institution, and it is failing and failing quickly. Statistics demonstrate this.

Adding children+internet access+Ashleymadison.com+A pussy-whipped man+A talking head psychotherapist only serves to illustrate this particular example as being even more dysfunctional than the institution itself.

I'm starting to think that your just a lame guy who can't get laid. You've told us 45435345,34543534,45435435 times that you are against coupledom. Stop repeating yourself and enough already. We got it the first time.

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lab mom

"Marriage is an unnatural human institution, and it is failing and failing quickly. Statistics demonstrate this."

Marriage is only a piece of paper, a contract. Contracts are created and dissolved all the time. Just because two people dissolve a business contract between the two of them, that does not mean there was failure, only that two people don't want each other to be the recipients of each other's assets anymore.

Two people can for all intents and purposes live together as if they are married without asking for official recognition, but if they do and later decide to reverse that decision, it's not a failure, just a change.

To call a breakup a failure is to deny that humans can grow or learn anything from the people in their lives. A breakup is not a failure, just a change. I'm divorced, I am happy that I am divorced, but I am not sorry I got married and don't consider it a mistake, on the contrary I am where I am because of it and have become a far better person. My ex and I may not be suited to each other personally speaking anymore, but that doesn't mean we wasted our time or that either one of us is bad because of it.

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Rose Red
Mothers think EVERY day is mother's day.

THIS!

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lab mom

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WaterLily
You've told us 45435345,34543534,45435435 times that you are against coupledom. Stop repeating yourself and enough already. We got it the first time.

THIS.

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WaterLily


I'm starting to think that your just a lame guy who can't get laid. You've told us 45435345,34543534,45435435 times that you are against coupledom. Stop repeating yourself and enough already. We got it the first time.

I'm not against coupledom in any way, shape, or form. I do however oppose government intervention and regulation of interpersonal relationships via contract law.

All interpersonal relationships should be purely at will.

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law1204
"Marriage is an unnatural human institution, and it is failing and failing quickly. Statistics demonstrate this."

Marriage is only a piece of paper, a contract. Contracts are created and dissolved all the time. Just because two people dissolve a business contract between the two of them, that does not mean there was failure, only that two people don't want each other to be the recipients of each other's assets anymore.

Two people can for all intents and purposes live together as if they are married without asking for official recognition, but if they do and later decide to reverse that decision, it's not a failure, just a change.

To call a breakup a failure is to deny that humans can grow or learn anything from the people in their lives. A breakup is not a failure, just a change. I'm divorced, I am happy that I am divorced, but I am not sorry I got married and don't consider it a mistake, on the contrary I am where I am because of it and have become a far better person. My ex and I may not be suited to each other personally speaking anymore, but that doesn't mean we wasted our time or that either one of us is bad because of it.

You don't become a better person by getting divorced or getting married. Personal ethics, honesty, and treating people with respect and charity define your character.

I'm missing something here aren't I?

Mother's day for me is when you give your mum (and in my family- grandma) a present, card, meal, whatever.

I've never even heard of the men making an effort for their wives/SOs.

Is this an American thing, or is my Dad just an ungrateful bastard? (Wouldn't surprise me lol)

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StudioFiftyFour

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law1204
"Marriage is an unnatural human institution, and it is failing and failing quickly. Statistics demonstrate this."

Marriage is only a piece of paper, a contract. Contracts are created and dissolved all the time. Just because two people dissolve a business contract between the two of them, that does not mean there was failure, only that two people don't want each other to be the recipients of each other's assets anymore.

Two people can for all intents and purposes live together as if they are married without asking for official recognition, but if they do and later decide to reverse that decision, it's not a failure, just a change.

To call a breakup a failure is to deny that humans can grow or learn anything from the people in their lives. A breakup is not a failure, just a change. I'm divorced, I am happy that I am divorced, but I am not sorry I got married and don't consider it a mistake, on the contrary I am where I am because of it and have become a far better person. My ex and I may not be suited to each other personally speaking anymore, but that doesn't mean we wasted our time or that either one of us is bad because of it.

You don't become a better person by getting divorced or getting married. Personal ethics, honesty, and treating people with respect and charity define your character.

The acts of marriage and divorce themselves don't make you a better person, but experiencing committed relationships and a subsequent breakup thereof can have a way of making you a better person. So, while divorce and marriage per se' don't "make you a better person", you can become a better person afterwards (or during) in the sense that by living through those experiences you have grown and perhaps changed your ways for the better, learned to understand what is truly important to you in your life, and come to terms with what is of value to you and what isn't regarding long term relationships. In many ways, you can learn to appreciate things which you had never realized existed until you have lived a different kind of life which was shared with another person on an intimate level, which I believe can make you a better person. The success or failure of a marriage isn't the only kind of relationship that can make you a better person, it's just part of the topic of this particular conversation, that's all.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

As I may have mentioned, I would prefer to see marriage be a purely social/religious matter between people who choose to pursue it, and for individuals to be able to enter into contracts with any other individuals to address issues that are now assumed as part of marriage (such as end-of-life decisions). So I think my views, StudioFiftyFour, are fairly close to your own on this topic. However, I do not see why you take such a negative attitude towards women whenever you bring up the topic of marriage.

And while I agree that marriage and divorce do not make you a better person, it seems clear to me that law1204 was speaking of the process of personal development and discovery which accompanied this. You enter into a long-term relationship in one state of mind, and, over the course of the relationship, you develop, and as the relationship ends you may also learn things which make you a better person. For instance, when you enter into a relationship you may learn to curb your selfishness, and when you end a relationship you may learn self-reliance.

I have to agree with Waterlily: it is getting a little old. I, for one, would appreciate a bit less misogyny (which was less evident on this thread, but has come out quite clearly on other threads) and less harping on about the wrongness of marriage when it doesn't relate to the thread. The women that this article is about could still cheat even if they were just living with someone and not married; thus it was not a thread about marriage but about romantic expectations.