Child put ahead of adults on the transplant list receives 2nd set of lungs.

I'd like a fucking news story done on the teen or adult who were first on the adult list who NOW won't be getting that lung.

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

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blondie
Maybe they should just take a lung and maybe a kidney from every (living) CF person to give to the chyldren. We are selfish for wanting to hoard those for ourselves when there are needy children. They take everything else from us, why not. d

The judge in this case is way out of line, as a beaurocrat overriding medical judgement and standards. And to have ONLY this child on the list while there are something like thirty other kids NOT on the adult list. WTF, I guess they should all sue too.

Yep, and specify if MUST come from a CF person, because we're not as special as moos and duhs and it should be okay to harvest organs from us.

About those 30 other kyds on the adult list? Yeah, you know there is going to be lobbying to abolish the age limit and allow them to be added as well. Then, once all the kyds "in need" are taken care of, then maybe an adult will get what's left, if the adults manage to hang around long enough of course.

Like I said, this is going to set a very, very bad precedent.

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kidlesskim
I'd like a fucking news story done on the teen or adult who were first on the adult list who NOW won't be getting that lung.

Oh, no one cares about that; except perhaps us CF people, and it seems Katherine Sebelius. But, even the head of HHS couldn't stop this, what chance does any adult have from here on out?

This makes my blood boil! What the fucking hell? Imagine if it was you or your loved one who was next on the list to get the organ! "Oh sorry, you've been bumped by a kid who wasn't even able to get them until her Moo lowed all around the media and a judge meddled where he had no right too."

The biggest problem I have with this is the having to carve up the lung to make it fit. Do believe that I've heard that 60% had to be cut away. THAT'S OVER HALF! This is just offensive to me. I see it as a crime and a sin. And, I would think this even if the prospective donor situation was from one large-chested adult to a small-chested adult. Has NOTHING to do with it being a child. I just think it's incredibly callous to say that one can get less than half an organ when someone else could make perfect use of the whole organ.

The long term worst thing about this is the judge, who granted the girl the right to get on the adult list based on her condition without consideration of her age, said he would consider ALL cases like this in the future if anyone else wants to come forward who's in the same situation. Since his order was only a temporary one and for ten days it's likely she will get her lung and someone else, a teen or adult, will die. SO, in essence he has set a precedent for all children in need of a transplant to have an excellent chance to make the same plea to the court for HIM to play God, and win. HOW will he be able to NOT grant the same thing for the next kid? HOW will any parent, even if they think it's wrong, NOT make the same plea for their child?

The social pressure and ridicule would be devastating if every single parent of a child on the transplant list didn't take their case to the courts too. Can you imagine public opinion in their circles? Everyone they know would be saying, "Why don't you take your child's case to that judge? Don't you want to save your child?", etc......This is one of THE WORST legal precedents of ALL time and I wish like hell a higher court would over turn it and the sooner the better. However, that would take an appeal of his decision by the Federal organ donor program and I am quite certain they don't want that type of shit on their shoulders or to take any stance like that regarding the politics of it. If that little girl gets that lung and survives into adulthood and later on has the time, life experiences, and maturity to actually think through what has been done, I wonder how she will feel about her life having been spared at the cost of someone else's?

I can say with absolute certainty that I wouldn't want to have to live with the fact that I am still alive because someone else had to die. I wonder if her parents even CONSIDERED the long term emotional aspect and impact of this action on their child? Somehow, I doubt think they give a shit about the one who will have to die OR of the potentially serious negative impact on their daughter.:headbrick

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

Even if she gets a lung tranplant, I bet you $10 that she's going to reject it and die anyways.

And so it begins. They sure didn't waste any time.

http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/06/18805140-second-child-files-suit-for-lung-transplant-gets-on-list

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A woman whose son died of cystic fibrosis in 2009 successfully sued on Thursday to get his younger brother, now 11, on the adult waiting list for a lung transplant.

It's the second lawsuit of its kind filed in the past two days on behalf of a child waiting for a set of lungs, and the lawyer representing both families says to expect more. The suits have forced an emergency meeting of the board overseeing organ transplants.

Court documents show that the mother of Javier Acosta filed suit on Thursday, after a judge forced Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to order the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network, or OPTN, to make an exception for 10-year-old Sarah Murnaghan of Pennsylvania this week.

“Javier is severely ill and if he does not receive a donated set of lungs very soon he will die,” the document filed by his mother, Milagros Martinez, reads. “Without one he will most likely die before his 12th birthday in August.” Like Sarah, Javier has cystic fibrosis -- an inherited genetic disease that can wreck a patient's lungs.

The suit isn’t surprising, says bioethicist Arthur Caplan, who had predicted a flood of lawsuits as desperate parents see a way to help their dying children. "This is absolutely what I feared, that we would get a flood of families saying 'I want to get my child fixed up'," says Caplan, director of the division of medical ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center and a frequent NBC News contributor.

Fucking self-centered asshole parunts who think their kyds get to jump to the head of the line and fuck any adults who are in need. And here again we have a kyd who has a genetic disease; one that his brother already died from. And yet, the stupid asshole parunts keep breeding.

This is revolting. At least some people are expressing concern about how it's not okay to screw over every needy adult in favor of chyldren.

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"People who have privilege or people who complain more loudly or have political voice shouldn't be able to claim special treatment," said Lawrence O. Gostin, a prominent health law professor at Georgetown University, who questioned the legal basis of the rulings. Transplant policies aim to be "fair and just for everyone, not just for that one heart-wrenching case."

Johns Hopkins University transplant surgeon Dr. Dorry Segev put it more starkly: "Every choice that is made in transplantation in favor of one patient means the likely death on the list for another patient."

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"The problem is, we can't build a system around making exceptions for everybody that isn't getting the transplant when they need it," Dr. John Roberts, who heads the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network's board, said Thursday.

The bigger issue that these lawsuits raise: Should the nation's transplant policy be changed so that children always get preference? Roberts said that is a fair question that society needs to debate, and if so, what age to set as the cut-off. Do 16-year-olds get the same preference as grade-schoolers?

Segev, the Hopkins surgeon who transplants kidneys and livers, offers a tougher example: What if an organ was available that would give a 25-year-old a 98 percent chance of success and a 15-year-old a 5 percent chance of success - who gets it, especially if the 15-year-old is a little sicker?

Transplant policies vary widely by organ, and Roberts said the under-12 policy for lungs accounts for younger children's different medical needs. They're particularly hard to transplant, children don't tend to fare as well and adult lungs don't always fit them. The policy includes steps to increase access: Lungs donated by 12- to 17-year-olds are first offered to patients that age and then to younger children before they're offered to adults, for example.

http://www.wkrg.com/story/22525595/judges-rulings-challenge-us-transplant-policies

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but there is no way this can end well.

And that woman is definitely an idiot for having another kid when her first already had cystic fibrosis.

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"Be yourself, no matter what. Some will adore you, and some will hate everything about you, but who cares?

It's your life. Make the most out of it."

From what I'm reading around the net, only 43% of lung transplant recipients even make it 5 years. So, if this girl gets her transplant, are the parunts going to be trying to move her to the head of the list again when she's 15?

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cfchevygirl
From what I'm reading around the net, only 43% of lung transplant recipients even make it 5 years. So, if this girl gets her transplant, are the parunts going to be trying to move her to the head of the list again when she's 15?

Of course they are.

This is sick. Sick. Organs should go to the one who has the most chance to accept it and live longer. Age be damned.

_______________________

“I was talking about children that have not been properly house-trained. Left to their own impulses and indulged by doting or careless parents almost all children are yahoos. Loud, selfish, cruel, unaffectionate, jealous, perpetually striving for attention, empty-headed, for ever prating or if words fail them simply bawling, their voices grown huge from daily practice: the very worst company in the world. But what I dislike even more than the natural child is the affected child, the hulking oaf of seven or eight that skips heavily about with her hands dangling in front of her -- a little squirrel or bunny-rabbit -- and prattling away in a baby's voice.”


― Patrick O'Brian, The Truelove


lib'-er-ty: the freedom given to you to make the wrong decision, based on the reasoned belief that you will normally make the right one.

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t.

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cfchevygirl
From what I'm reading around the net, only 43% of lung transplant recipients even make it 5 years. So, if this girl gets her transplant, are the parunts going to be trying to move her to the head of the list again when she's 15?

Of course they are.

This is sick. Sick. Organs should go to the one who has the most chance to accept it and live longer. Age be damned.

I hate to sound callous, but the time should come that a parent realizes that the child will have a continual, severe, and tragic struggle just to BE, with constant advanced medical intervention that escalates with age. Also, life expectancy will be pitiful, with treatment being at its best. These kids will NEVER see even ONE normal kid life day. I think it's incredibly selfish to put them through a short life like that, and maybe they should just make peace with it and let the child go. Better to rest in peace in a case like this.

Oh, and once you've gone through that, do NOT have a replacement kid. Odds of the same damn thing happening again are pretty good.

My sister has a friend with CF and we were talking about it. He's about 25 I think. He's pretty pleased that he's not on the transplant list at the moment because it means that he's not taking a lung from someone who will die without it.

The thing with him, though, is that he knows that he's going to die one day, and he knows that it will be early, but if it happens, it happens. His husband is ready for it too.

The moos need to step back and realise that they're condemning someone else to death because of their selfish need to have their kid go first. I wonder if they'd donate her heart to a kid who needs it. From what I understand (could be wrong - not a medical professional) when they do lung transplants, it's better to have heart and lung because of the way the transplant is done. In a CF patient, the heart is usually healthy, so I wonder if the moo will donate the healthy heart to a kid who needs it.

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shy lurker

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night owl

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author of article
I just wish it didn't take a little girl dying to remind people to put kids first.

Who wouldn't want that, she says.

Not I, said the evil Night Owl. Why on earth should the kid get the lungs first JUST because she's a kid? The commenters are displaying that they've put more thought into this than the original ranter. Organs have to be matched according to tissue compatibility and size and whatever else. After that, I can see putting the most severe case first, but in no circumstance would I say we should always put the kid ahead of an adult on a transplant list JUST because it's a kid.

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Blood type also has to be matched. I think an adult lung would be too big for a ten year old. Organs should be translated into the best match regardless of the list. It's a waste of a perfectly good organ if the organ is incompatible and the body rejects when it can go to somebody who is a better match and less likely to reject.

You can use part of the lung with success, but you cannot just take a lung and stick it into the next available person. There is a whole issue of the best candidate to not reject that lung or organ. Just because a child is added to the list is no guarantee a compatible organ will show up. But a comment the mother made irks me. She was talking about lungs going to "less deserving adults" and, while I understand this is her young daughter, I think that was a rather negative thing to say, as while one could argue that an adult who smoked should not be on the top of the list, what about an adult who never smoked and exercises every day?

I'm bumping this because I heard an NPR interview with the kid's mother today. They hired a lawyer and obtained a court order for a judge to put their daughter on the list. Moo had this to say about the controversy and the precedent this case is setting:

"Well, it's not as if doctors will start putting organs into children if they'll fail just because they're children. There will still be a medical determination."

Stupid bitch. This is EXACTLY what's going to happen, because it will be medicine by politics and not by medical need, health of the recipient, and consideration of who has the best chance of surviving.


I feel sorry for any adult who needs a transplant because they are about to get royally fucked.

If adults and children are going to be one the same shared list I hope this means adults will also be eligible for transplants from children if they are the best matches. I guess the average adult will need 2-3 pairs of kiddie lungs to get enough oxygen, which means quite a few kids will lose out from this combined system.

One can dream.

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yurble
If adults and children are going to be one the same shared list I hope this means adults will also be eligible for transplants from children if they are the best matches. I guess the average adult will need 2-3 pairs of kiddie lungs to get enough oxygen, which means quite a few kids will lose out from this combined system.

One can dream.

THIS!

That's the thing that gets me, there is a medical reason why there is an age threshold. And it's not like NO chyldren are on the adult list; just chyldren who are not at least 12-years-old. Twelve is not an adult, nor is 13, 14, 15, 16 or 17. Yet those age people ARE on the adult list. Why? They're not adults.

So how can any parunt say this is anti-kid? There are kyds from age 12 on up on the list. Those are kyds right? I didn't fall asleep and them change the age of legal adult to 12 now did I? The issue is one of physical and biological maturity.

Keep up these lawsuits and emotional pleas, and soon we'll be having to carve away 80% of an adult lung, so it can go to a 5-year-old.

Let's say, for the sake of argument that a 5-year-old could get 20% of an adult's lungs and live to adulthood -- I know it's not going to happen, but let's postulate for a minute. Do those lungs grow at all? I'm thinking that, unlike the liver which does "grow back" to an extent, the lungs will forever be that size. So, if the 5 y.o. would make it to adulthood, would they only ever have that tiny little lung capacity?

I have to say one again I am grateful for this site, where we can discuss things with logic and reason.

I was reading some posts about this on other forums, and there are lots of people with the attitude that chyldren should always go first, even when they have less of a chance or when the organs have to be cut way down. The prevailing attitude there is "chyldren have their whole lives ahead of them and deserve to live; someone older has already lived", as well as the idea that "chyldren in need of transplants are innocent, so they should get the organ over an adult who 'did damage to themselves'. " Ugh.

I don't even know what to say about this.

http://news.msn.com/us/pa-girls-double-lung-transplant-a-success

This is gonna open a wide door to other parunts who wanna prolong the life of their doomed chywuld... no sense making any rules regarding transplants based on medical science anymore, because a federal judge will fuck it all up. Many organs will be wasted when adult-to-child transplants are eventually proved NOT to work every time. (That's one of the reasons I am NOT a donor.)

Some people have said that a double-lung transplant is a "cure" for cystic fibrosis -- THAT'S NOT TRUE. Not only does CF affect more than just the lungs, but these "new" lungs will eventually be ravaged by the disease and she's gonna be in the same bind a few years down the road -- and that's if they don't get rejected first.

Interestingly enough, this all took place at the SAME damn hospital that did a kidney transplant on that turdler with Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome. (At least that one was never on a transplant list.)

@cfchevygirl, I'm definitely no medical expert, but I imagine if a lung from an adult is put into a child, it wouldn't grow because it came from an adult body and was already fully grown by the time it got to the kid. I could be mistaken, but you bring up a good point. What happens when the kid gets older and bigger and his whittled lung can't provide enough air for his growing body? Does the kid get another lung transplant? This is going to cause some really bad shit if it becomes a regular occurrence. Kids getting carved-up adult organs and then needing another transplant later for another adult-sized replacement organ when the old kid-size one isn't able to keep up with an adolescent or adult body. That means going through donated organs at an even faster rate and more people dying while waiting because someone's sickly brat needed more organs.

And of course when these sickly kids with transplanted organs kick the bucket, their handlers won't even consider donating the kid's healthy organs so that...you know...someone else's child won't have to take an adult organ away from a sick adult. Moos are generally all about take take take and give nothing back (look how many are on welfare), so it doesn't surprise me that they're not willing to donate their dead brat's healthy organs. But I'm sure they'd be all too quick to call someone selfish who doesn't donate THEIR child's organs. "Everyone drop what they're doing and help MY child, but fuck everyone else's sick kids!"

Like I said in the other transplant thread, transplant patients generally do not live too long. On average, I think they might have 5-10 years after the transplant, and that's assuming their bodies don't reject the organ(s). Moo needs to pull her head out of her kid's ass and realize her kyd isn't the only person who needs an organ to live, and that her brat is not more important than someone else. Just another case of doing everything possible so Mommy doesn't have to cry. It's not easy to have to face the reality of a loved one's life being cut short, but delaying the inevitable will not make things any better, especially when the method of delay harms other people. Yes Moo, your kid will die young. Maybe before she hits adulthood. Try to make what time she has as special and memorable as possible...WITHOUT killing other people. Your kid was dealt a shitty hand and you have to learn to deal with it.

I'm so outraged by this. After being a donor since 1994, I went to my state registration page and had my name removed from the list today. I am not donating organs just so the people with the best lawyers and media coverage can fight over them in a courtroom.

The little girl has CF. This is no full cure. The mother's initial response to the news of the transplant was to say that 'God is good', and that he moved mountains to make this happen. What, moved a mountain on top of the person who had the organs so they would die? Oh hell no. Screw this.

Yeah that's a horrible thing to say; that essentially God killed someone so that her daughter could live. Wow. Stupid moo.

There aren't enough organs to go around for adults, much less if they continue to let kyds jump on the adult list and to the head of the line. Kyds need organs from other kyds; if there's a shortage there, then moos need to blame other moos who don't donate their kyds organs when they die. So blame other selfish moos.

Now here's the biggie. This girl got her lungs. If she rejects them or they don't work/last for whatever reason, then it's like having thrown those lungs away, when they could've gone to someone else. And of course she would probably get right back to the head of the transplant line. If they do work, more people are going to argue that it will work for all kyds to carve up adult lungs, and we will see more kyds jumping to the head of the list.

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I'm so outraged by this. After being a donor since 1994, I went to my state registration page and had my name removed from the list today. I am not donating organs just so the people with the best lawyers and media coverage can fight over them in a courtroom.

Word. If I hadn't done it already, I'd be doing it now. I stopped doing it a couple of years ago for two reasons:

1. Donations are supposed to be free, at least theoretically, but in practice, shady hospitals and organizations try to stick the family with the bill. It's "not supposed to happen" but I've seen too many instances where the family of the dead person is charged and THEY have to go to the media and shame the organizations involved to get them to remove the charges. (It happened to a friend of mine when her husband died after what should have been a simple surgery.) Fuck that shit and I'm not leaving my family with that burden.

2. The process was fucked even before that happened. Celebrities often get organs before the rank and file. Mickey Mantle, the famous baseball player, got a liver transplant (no doubt over other people) even when he ruined his liver by drinking.

This is not a popular or politically correct opinion: If we lived in a perfect world where organs were plentiful, behavior wouldn't matter, but if I ran the world, people who ruin their organs due to their own choices would go lower on the list. If you drink and ruin your liver, to the back of the line you go. If you are a brittle diabetic and you MUST have a chyyyyyld rather than adopting or using a surrogate, and you ruin your kidneys with "mirakul baybee", that was your choice. Hello dialysis for the rest of your life.

I am not a donor, but I've been contemplating becoming one since I first learned about organ donors. I think I'm leaning toward not doing so now.

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"Be yourself, no matter what. Some will adore you, and some will hate everything about you, but who cares?

It's your life. Make the most out of it."

Not a donor, but if I were this case would have made me take my name off the list. I am healthy and would likely be an excellent candidate to be a donor which is what scares me the most. I honestly believe that there is a tendency to hurry someone's life out the door ASAP if there is someone waiting for their organs.

Check out the case of Ruben Navarro or Jacobs v. UPMC Hamot (recent PA case). I don't want vultures hovering over me and bullying my family if I was ever to be in this situation.