Girlfriend wants child or break up

nokyds4me Wrote:
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> RUN, seriously, she WILL opps you, even if she
> calms down and tells you she "understands" and
> wants to pick you over the "babyeee" she WILL
> OPPS you, I need to be blunt here. You need to
> get out. SHE WANTS a babyeee and your going to be
> her wallet. she wants to trap you to pay for it,
> as she is already used to you paying for her life
> for 4 years. She wants what she wants and nothing
> will stop her. I dont care what she tells you
> about changing her mind. RUN RUN RUN. 2 years
> from now you wont even remember her middle name
> and you will still be enjoying your awesome CF
> life!! Look her up in 2 yrs, she will have a
> baybbeee (maybe 2) and a single moo............RUN
> RUN

Valkyrie did come out "on the other side" when it came to wanting those babies. She is fortunate. However, I am more in agreement with nokydsforme. Not all women are as reasonable as Valkyrie and understood how she was falling into peer pressure for those babies. Yet, I had a good friend who whined how she wished I would change my mind and have that baby despite the bint KNOWING I had a tubal ligation, an abortion, and then a second tubal! I got her out of my life as well...but there were no yearning for those sprogs on my part. I am very hardcore childfree-by-choice.

Nokydsforme states exactly what I stated: Jim, your girlfriend is very used to you paying for the good life she has. I doubt she wants to go find a real job-buh instead of this non-profit shit should you tell her she needs to move. She is not going to want to give that up regardless of you not wanting kids. Just as you saw on the motherhood boards, many women will stoop at nothing to trap a man. That is as prevalent now as it was over 30 years ago. Jim, do you really think that treading lightly is going to make this easier for you??? If you do, you are a fool. I know I sound harsh but most people tend to want to live in denial and then wonder why something has happened that they did not want: such as the girlfriend getting pregnant.

The only thing I am going to say is that many women will suddenly say that it is okay not to have a child when they know their free living could come to an end or even a relationship where the $$$ may be more even-keeled is threatened. The men are stupid to relax thinking all is well. Within three months, the woman suddenly comes up pregnant stating how her birth control pills failed and now know all of that stats of contraception failure as if they suddenly have their medical license to be an ob-gyn. They got this down to a script. Even if a guy is using a rubber, that is also sabotaged: poking holes and digging out a used condom to get the "goods".

Do what you want, Jim. If you want to keep your head in the sand, it is your problem and none of ours. We will be living happily childfree while you are being called, "Daddy," and knowing that this woman will have her tentacles into your assets...because if you ever leave her, you are so on the hook for brat support even if you do not marry the cunt. Take your time if you want; it is your funeral. This woman does not care two cents about you at all. You have been nothing more than her meal ticket as you already stated the twat gets what she wants and you get to support it. Her nerve is showing that sad widdle face over you not wanting to shackle yourself to a fucking child.

You are also stupid if you fall for the tears, "why's", and "what if's". It's your life...:cool

Valkyrie Wrote:
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> Unlike many of the women here, I actually HAVE
> been through baby rabies and come out happily
> childfree on the other side. How did this happen,
> you may ask? It was my husband who was primarily
> responsible for it.

Valkyrie, my situation was so simillar I could've wrote your post myself.

I too unfortunately was starting to cave to my mom & other female famblee members, as the oldest girl & 1st to get married- they were all waiting with baited breath for word I was knocked up. Pitiful.

We've been married 10 years & about 2 years into it I started with the belly aching, so he reminded me of how good our lives were already & how they'd change for the quite possible worst. And he didn't give in. He knew me too well by then to know I/we weren't cut out for it.

Luckily like Valkyrie, I'm the kind of person that questions things & can get over my own bullshit to look at all sides. And I loved him too much not to. I realized I never wanted kids in the first place, and never even liked babies. It's been 7 years now & I'm so much happier then ever with zero regrets.

I just hadn't given myself the chance to examine it all & I'm grateful to him for allowing me too see that, even though the Babie Rabies was hell to go through for us both. I'm just sorry I was so bull-headed at first, making him feel he wasn't important enough to be considered.

So my advice to you echos everyone elses. She's NOT listening to you right now- all she hears is BAYBEE so lay it out like a slap in the face in no uncertain terms. Even if she accuses you of being an insensitive baybee-hating monster and cries that you don't love her. You're doing this because you DO love her enough not to hate your lives later on.

Oh yeah, and don't let her have access to your sperm. As you've read, women are capable of going to any lengths. They also think men are too stupid to realize a BAYBEE will cement their relationship, and take matters into their own hands.

Good luck, my friend.

> childfree on the other side. How did this happen,
> you may ask? It was my husband who was primarily
> responsible for it.

That is the role I am trying to take, in that she laid down the ultimatum of 'child and me', or break-up. I explained to her last night that she has painted me into a corner, and she needs to accept that given that kind of a hardline choice, why would I feel good about a decision to bring a child into the world on a ransom, in essence.

> Speaking as someone who has been there, it isn't
> hormones that causes it, it's the influence of
> other women in your life, particularly the mother
> or any other woman whom she loves and respects.

Yeah, there is a lot going on there, and why I just wanted to lay things on the line there. Not only her mother is pressuring her, but one of her best friends is getting married, and stopping the pill. She wants kids in short order, since she is marrying a (just done residency) doctor, quitting her job (and working at all) and moving to portland. We talked about it last night, and I explained how likely that is to end in a disaster. They've only lived together for six months, and the whole situation is going to change with a new city, no job, and having children. To me it sounds like a derailment down the line. No one can know how they will be as a couple with all of these changes.

Secondly, her other friend just got engaged too. That one is different, though, since her friend actually has stated that she wants to be child free. They've also dated six years, and they got a couple of cats together. It provides the opposite role model, but I think she just sees the marriage part, and not the lifestyle part.

>
> If you both decide to stay together and not have
> kids, you will both need to confront her mother

Well we had a big talk last night. I explained that I did not want her mother involved in this at all. It would not provide for anything we didn't already know. I explained my concerns, and why I wanted to be child free. She just basically said that she always knew she wanted kids, since being a kid herself, and that is that. She also expressed how she loves the relationship, and feels it is going so well. So of course she is scared of ending it, and trying to find another man to be a father. It is now non stop crying since yesterday. Man, that is not making me even want to discuss the possibility of children.

No worries on an oops thing. With the state of things, I don't think there is a chance of the precursor anyways. At least I am not exactly attracted to a sobbing mess sexually....

I want to respect the time she has put into this, and give her a chance t understand where I am at. That does not mean that I am going to change her mind, or she hers. It's more of a respect thing that it is clear that she has made a choice and is as much of the breakup herself, and my choice not to have children. It makes it easier as we have mutual friends.

Man, the next bit is going to really suck, though.

Jim

jimo Wrote:
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> She also
> expressed how she loves the relationship, and
> feels it is going so well.

She loves the relationship because it goes so well for her in a financial manner. She does not want THAT to go away.


> So of course she is
> scared of ending it, and trying to find another
> man to be a father.

She knows that it will be rare to find another man who is willing to support her lifestyle in a $$$ manner 100%. Most men want their live-ins to pay exactly 50% of the bills even if the woman makes far less and the guy has fancy tastes. Finding a man to be a father is not as easy as finding the daily newspaper on your lawn.

It is now non stop crying
> since yesterday. Man, that is not making me even
> want to discuss the possibility of children.
>
> No worries on an oops thing. With the state of
> things, I don't think there is a chance of the
> precursor anyways. At least I am not exactly
> attracted to a sobbing mess sexually....

The sobbing mess is a way to try to make you feel guilty. She is probably also weeping because she may know her free ride is about to end.


> I want to respect the time she has put into this,
> and give her a chance to understand where I am at.

Why??? The woman does not respect you or your choices.

> That does not mean that I am going to change her
> mind, or she hers. It's more of a respect thing
> that it is clear that she has made a choice and is
> as much of the breakup herself, and my choice not
> to have children. It makes it easier as we have
> mutual friends.
>
> Man, the next bit is going to really suck,
> though.

You better hope this female looter does leave your home without any drama. My stepbrother moved in a woman and found out this was not good for him at all. Of course, the lady wanted to stay on as J0*l has a nice pad. Finally, he had to tell her to LEAVE within a month's period since he did NOT need a roommate. The woman was working and able-bodied.

>
> You better hope this female looter does leave your
> home without any drama.

Well the one good thing there, since we did talk about it last night, is she has already started looking for room mates. She said she could not stay since it would hurt too much.

I guess that is a good sign, at least, but obviously I know don't count on anything until it happens. I absolutely am not going to have her living there when the decision is made. I really feel like it was her choice to make the ultimatum, so she has to live with that decision.

It's still tough and kind of sucks, though,

Jim

jimo Wrote:
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> >
> > You better hope this female looter does leave
> your
> > home without any drama.
>
> Well the one good thing there, since we did talk
> about it last night, is she has already started
> looking for room mates. She said she could not
> stay since it would hurt too much.

I hope for your sake that she is serious about the roommate thing. Whatever you do, don't fuck her no matter how horny you may get.

> I guess that is a good sign, at least, but
> obviously I know don't count on anything until it
> happens. I absolutely am not going to have her
> living there when the decision is made. I really
> feel like it was her choice to make the ultimatum,
> so she has to live with that decision.

Oh yes...girly-girl is going to regret her decision. Like someone here said, look her up in two years and see how badly she is doing. I don't think she is going to actualize her fantasy of life as a mommy with the doting daddy-husband who will take care of her every need. Reality is going to really suck for her.

> It's still tough and kind of sucks, though,

It is better than being called, "Daddy," and being on the $$$ hook for the rest of your life and you ending up hating the woman.

Dude, BAIL, GET OUT NOW.

I also see an oopsing in the near future despite your doubts.

MOST women who want that almighty cribling are desperate, ruthless, lying, sneaking shrews and will get knocked up at all costs.

I've seen some guy friends in similar situations and I've heard former female friends talk about how they want a baby and "he is just going to have to deal with it" and oops their mayun.

Good luck, be strong and be SMART.

Another advice...DO NOT SHARE SAME BED WITH THAT GIRL!

You can even go stay at a motel, if necessary.

It's even better you just leave her behind and LET her have babies with another man, so you won't have to listen to her whining about wanting kids NOW.

Hope you can find a new girlfriend who is also happily CF.

amethusos* Wrote:
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> jimo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> > It's still tough and kind of sucks, though,
>
> It is better than being called, "Daddy," and being
> on the $$$ hook for the rest of your life and you
> ending up hating the woman.

And it would suck alot more if you were already married.

Jimo, PLUS - think of the sheer, living, unescapable HELL you be thrust into (see below) should this chick get knocked up by you.

The games she'll play to use the kid as a tool against you.

The head games.

The unending $$$$ requests.

The court costs.

The baby momma drama you'll have to endure.

The psychological and verbal bashing you'll get from anyone on her side.

You won't have a moment's peace.

FEW, VERY FEW chidlfree women will want to spend time with you because of the bullshit constantly spilling over into your personal life and the financial restrictions child support will result in.

You'll constantly be defending and justifying anything you do or spend money on because the bitch will always be there, watching and bitching at you for WHY you are spending money on silly things like a car when the kid needs basket weaving lessons.

I can say this because my SO divorced when his kids (now 19 and 22) were 7 and 9. The years and years of torment, financial burden, mental torture, threats and psychological games really take a toll on a person. I admire him for keeping his sanity.

Learn from the mistakes of others and run like hell.

jimo You seem like a smart guy, but I'm afraid she will cry you a river and say she realized that she doesn't want a babyeeeee now, and you will let her stay and think all is fine and than OPPS!! I think this needs to end ASAP. there is to much at stake here. I always think of ex girlfriends of mine , that at the time, were the most important thing in my ENTIRE life, now looking back, I giggle and cant even remember their middle name. so what seems so hurtful and hard now, will one day be a blip on the map of your life

nokyds4me Wrote:
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> jimo You seem like a smart guy, but I'm afraid
> she will cry you a river and say she realized that
> she doesn't want a babyeeeee now, and you will let
> her stay and think all is fine and than OPPS!! I
> think this needs to end ASAP. there is to much at
> stake here. I always think of ex girlfriends of
> mine , that at the time, were the most important
> thing in my ENTIRE life, now looking back, I
> giggle and cant even remember their middle name.
> so what seems so hurtful and hard now, will one
> day be a blip on the map of your life

Jim, this dude is right. Girly is hopin' you will let her stay. Funny how she claims to be seeking roomies today after last night's talk. Did she start making calls at three o'clock in the morning??? I look at former mates in my life and think the same thing --- blips on the map. I do have a photographic memory with the backup film so I do remember names...

I'd just say that statistics favor the fact that it won't stop, even if you "give" her just one child. Soon it'll need a brother or sister, hopefully of the opposite sex.

Seriously, if raising children is the kind of work you do not want to do, there is no reason for you to do it. People who don't want to be parents and end up in that situation make shitty parents, and I think we all agree there are way more than enough shitty parents in the world.

Breaking up, it sucks indeed, but there's usually a valid reason for it, and both parties are better off as a result.

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

And seriously Jimo, I'm a straight female - but - I can tell you this, the pussy ain't *THAT* great for you to stay and give up your values - and your life.

Jimo,

1. Get a vasectomy ASAP...lol.
2. If you do borrow a kid, don't do it just for the weekend. Borrow it for a week - that way the fun and novelty will have worn off. A weekend is more likely to just encourage her, I think.
3. Man, I am so sorry for you. Parting with someone you love just because of this... You have my sympathy.
4. Have her check out www.truemomconfessions.com, and its sister truedadconfessions. The truth about motherhood is horrifying - they all complain about their ruined bodies and how they're "just a shell" and have no time for anything and no friends and desperately need even a few minutes a day to shower. There's very few positive experiences on there. There's also loads about marriages going to hell after kids.
5.If she's still sure she WANT those babies (and it's not just her mother talking), part ways. . That would suck - but better than one of you resenting the other for the rest of your existence.
Good luck. Not an easy situation.

Even if Girlfriend did tell Jim that she suddenly realised the error of her ways and did not want those criblings, he would be a fool to keep her in his house. Please...many women do the "I choose YOU over a baby" only for the b/c to mysteriously fail. The truth came out. How could the man trust a sudden about-face??? Jim needs to make the bitchling live with the consequences of her decision even if it means supporting herself and dealing with roomies. None of this would have happened had she not backed this guy into a corner demanding a baby or a break-up. Sucks to be her.

> Even if Girlfriend did tell Jim that she suddenly
> realised the error of her ways and did not want
> those criblings, he would be a fool to keep her in
> his house. Please...many women do the "I choose
> YOU over a baby" only for the b/c to mysteriously
> fail. The truth came out. How could the man trust
> a sudden about-face???

I agree am,

my husband & I took over a year to come to terms with this issue, nobody did any sudden flip-flopping. I'd be very suspicious if this chick changed her mind overnight.

Here are some interesting questions you and your girlfriend could answer... (they're from http://enlightenment.supersaturated.com/essays/text/carolynray/shame_children.html

Questions Potential Parents Should Ask Themselves Aside from questions like "Will I keep a Downs' Syndrome baby or put it up for adoption?"

1. Do I recognize that each child is an individual with its own personality and preferences, and that I can only influence these to a limited extent?

2. Do I really LIKE children? Do I enjoy playing all levels of children's games? Do I enjoy being with someone who is frequently rambunctious, loud, uninhibited, deliberately trying, and who requires my constant supervision?

3. Do I enjoy the idea of parenting? Specifically, do I enjoy the idea of correcting someone else, feeling like I have to correct someone else, monitoring another person's behavior and finding creative and sensitive ways of expressing the same thing over and over until it is understood?

4. Does a disrupted sleep schedule bother me? Or am I the type of person who gets irritated or ill if my 11:30-8:00 schedule is shifted or interrupted? Do I take the irritation out on other people? How will I feel when the baby cries at 2:00 and th en at 5:00? Would I ever feign sleep while my partner tends to the baby?

5. Is a committed relationship my style, or do I tend to have friends and lovers for a while and then move on when I lose interest? How do I feel about starting a close and intimate relationship with an unknown person with unknown interests (i.e., th e child) that will last the rest of my life?

6. When I daydream about being a parent, am I picturing the child at a certain age? How do I feel about children at other ages? Do I fully realize that a rambunctious 13-year-old will be my responsibility just as surely as the cuddly newborn is? Am I interested in 13-year-olds?

7. When I daydream about having a child, do I picture the child doing certain kinds of activities, such as little league? How do I feel about the child engaging in activities that I am not interested in, strongly dislike, or disapprove of? (E.g., if I enjoyed contact sports as a child, will I be disoriented by my son's love of the piano and interior decorating? Will I need to "keep trying" if I have a girl?)

8. Do I lose my temper with people who don't catch on immediately? How will that translate into a parent-child situation?

9. Do I expect to be such a wonderful parent that I will never have to discipline my splendid child, or do I expect to make mistakes that I will see reflected in my child's behavior? How will I treat the child when I realize that something I have don e — such as lying to my child — has interfered with his or her purity of spirit?

10. If you are considering "giving" your lover or spouse children, though you don't especially want them, on the condition that he or she take over most of the responsibility for their daily nurture, have you considered the idea that your partner might fall ill, die, or leave you with the kids? Do you have a fallback plan for that eventuality? Or are you hoping that you will become more interested in caring for the children in such a case, or perhaps that you will be able to quickly meet another pers on who will take full responsibilty for them while you do the things that are more important to you?

11. Is your principle reason for having children that you and your lover want to "make something together" or "make something that will be part of both of us"? If so, do you also love _children_? What if the child's personality and interests doesn't much resemble either of yours — will the fact that it has half of each of your chromosomes be enough for you?

12. Do you have extra money that you don't think you'll be using for anything else? Or do you expect your years with your child to be years of "sacrifice"? If the latter, are you accustomed to "hardship" or do you think it is possible that you will r esent the cost of the child who is preventing you from buying other kinds of luxuries?

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Thanks everyone so far for all of the support, help, and thoughts. It is really helping me to build the resolve for once and all to put down a firm no to her on the whole thing, and let us both get on with our lives, that apparently have divergent paths anyways.

I have to agree with much said, after having conversations last night where she was suggesting I could sell the house, move to a cheaper town in the country, and therefore still have more money and opportunities to be outside. I am thinking to myself why would I go through all of this just to have a child? I have more than that now without doing anything at all! Then she suggested seeing a financial planner. I had to point out once again that I know I 'could afford' it, I just don't WANT to. I would rather save that same money and use it to retire earlier, as well as enjoy the lifestyle I have now. I am quite content as is.

So we agreed to think on it for another day or two, but my mind is getting more and more used to the idea of moving on. I just can't see how she would be happy without the possibility of a child, and I can't see how I would be happy if forced into one. I don't see any of that changing. I also know that if the relationship were to continue, I would have to get a vasectomy to feel comfortable in having relations with her anymore. That would make it quite final.

So hopefully we will have some resolution to all of this by the end of this weekend. I definitely will not be oopsed, since it takes my participation in order to allow that to happen.

Sigh, just when things seem to be going well, it all can go to hell. I feel sorry for her, more than I do myself. I know I will continue to live a prosperous and comfortable life. I do not see the same for her, especially when she actually has children, and lives the reality.

Growing more and more resolved every message,

Jim

Jimo, do not feel bad for anyone. You have fed her long enough. Keep you stuff under the lock and key. Do NOT have sex with her, do not touch her. So far, all the negatives you have heard here are completely true and there is no need for me to repeat them.
There are a few exceptions to the rule, like Valkarie and Grizzlycat, but your GF does not appear to be such. If you get fixed, only do so at your own will for your own desire. Do not even think that getting fixed will keep you from becoming a dad. At best, there are sperm banks, she will get knocked up and tell you that vasectomy has failed.
The only way your GF could appreciate anything would be if she has earned all the things you have your self. She has not done that, you are being the Nice Guy and you, my friend, know where Nice Guys finish.
If I were you, I would say "amen" to all posts I have read here that pertained to your situation. If in doubt, go to www.blowmeuptom.com and listen to all audio archives of Tom Leykis. You will hear what your GF is capable of. So far, on this board, people who responded to you are good people. They tell the truth. You decide.

Jim, I don't really have any new advice for you...I agree with everything everyone else has said. GET OUT NOW! But I did want to say welcome to the comm., and it's nice to have another CF Jim...my husband is a Jim as well.

Jim, I know a number of men in your situation, or similar, who have been oopsed. I know I'm beating a dead drum, but there are SO MANY WAYS TO OOPS. You don't even have to have sex with her. If she offers to give you a blow-job (and who could turn that down, right?) all she needs to do is let you unload in her mouth and then secrectly take some back out and put it you-know-where... If she runs to the bathroom to spit out... Even if she "swallows"...

I'm really sorry to be so graphic, but let's be honest, there are a million and one ways to oops. Please don't think that just by using a condom that you have kept safely guarded from pin-pricking, or even avoiding intercourse altogether, you can protect yourself from this. There are only 2 ways to protect yourself for sure:
1.) vasectomy
2.) no sexual contact with her, whatsoever

Please be careful and smart. I hate women who oops men. They're everywhere, and they're the lowest of the low.

its bad that such a thing has come to pass, but todays pro woman/pro child world its ok to do such things.

what got me in your last post is that she was trying to dictate to you what to do with your money, and you life. why should you move if your happy where you are, why see a financial planner when you seem to be a very smart person, and you know you can do all this.

i hate dictating or being dictated too. i dig my heels and i dont move.. i hate being the boss, and i hate being bossed, if i am told logically this is best. thn i will consider it and possibly go along with it.

i hope you can find a true cf partner, they are wonderful people on the whole. i may argue and diasgree with some but they are still good people.


check this out on baby centre

http://www.babycenter.com/400_how-can-i-get-my-husbands-biological-clock-off-snooze_500467_1001.bc

I'm in the same situation, and I'll tell you the solution: just get pregnant. Get what you want out of the relationship because he sure is. He gets all the sex and companionship and warmth a woman offers, and the best years of her life. If you're in love, and you're positive he's in love with you, then just do it. Accidents happen, especially when we really want them to. I don't care who thinks this is sneaky, because I think it's pretty sneaky when men string us along for years and waste our time just to have sex with us and not give us what we want. You could wait too long, not be able to have a baby, and then your husband could leave you for a younger woman who can have kids. I know a woman where this happened. So I'm telling you, if you really want this, then just DO IT. I wish you luck and happiness :-) posted 1/16/2007 by Emily

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

I also cannot give you any more advice since you continue to listen to this woman's insanity such as selling your nice home and moving to a cruddy area all so she can push a stroller. If you keep being so wishy-washy and feeling sorry for her, I can bet this chick ain't goin' anywhere and you will eventually be oopsed. I knew this bint was not suddenly looking for roomies within 8-10 hours of the "no baby" conversation! As Techie said, you fed this looter long enough.

Techie Wrote:
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> The only way your GF could appreciate anything
> would be if she has earned all the things you have
> your self. She has not done that, you are being
> the Nice Guy and you, my friend, know where Nice
> Guys finish.

Most people -- especially many kept women -- do not appreciate things if they do not have to do the sweat equity to gain these items. Jim will be finishing last with his dragging it out over the weekend. My bet is Wanna-Breed is going to suddenly come around and Jim will fall for the B*S. I know I am a bitch...but a realistic one.

> If I were you, I would say "amen" to all posts I
> have read here that pertained to your situation.
> If in doubt, go to www.blowmeuptom.com and listen
> to all audio archives of Tom Leykis. You will
> hear what your GF is capable of. So far, on this
> board, people who responded to you are good
> people. They tell the truth. You decide.

Tom Leykus is a sexist SOB but he does say it as it is...