Another parent wanting to join the party

Kits, I have very extreme viewpoints too, and I fully expect that things will never be as according to those viewpoints. I don't say much about them on here unless it is relevant to an existing discussion.

Basically, I think that freedom is a wonderful idea but that most people are too stupid to use it effectively. The problem starts when you have to figure out details and shit, like who gets to decide for others. It seems that the stupid people get stuck with the responsibility.

But that's just a general birds-eye summary of my viewpoints. i DO have specific ideas of how to actually go about implementing things, but I know these ideas won't be accepted by most other people and I also know I probably will never be in a position to make them happen either.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

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SlumSlut
Kits, I have very extreme viewpoints too, and I fully expect that things will never be as according to those viewpoints. I don't say much about them on here unless it is relevant to an existing discussion.

Basically, I think that freedom is a wonderful idea but that most people are too stupid to use it effectively. The problem starts when you have to figure out details and shit, like who gets to decide for others. It seems that the stupid people get stuck with the responsibility.

But that's just a general birds-eye summary of my viewpoints. i DO have specific ideas of how to actually go about implementing things, but I know these ideas won't be accepted by most other people and I also know I probably will never be in a position to make them happen either.

I feel much the same way, with the exception that I frequently share my views here

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yurble

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SlumSlut
Kits, I have very extreme viewpoints too, and I fully expect that things will never be as according to those viewpoints. I don't say much about them on here unless it is relevant to an existing discussion.

Basically, I think that freedom is a wonderful idea but that most people are too stupid to use it effectively. The problem starts when you have to figure out details and shit, like who gets to decide for others. It seems that the stupid people get stuck with the responsibility.

But that's just a general birds-eye summary of my viewpoints. i DO have specific ideas of how to actually go about implementing things, but I know these ideas won't be accepted by most other people and I also know I probably will never be in a position to make them happen either.

I feel much the same way, with the exception that I frequently share my views here

oh I SHARE my views, but I do not subscribe to an "agenda" to PROMOTE my views.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

OMG Alan

Kimmie has NOT adopted any children. She has shat out THREE of her own. THREE.

After claiming she is infertile and has PCOS and had to take fertility drugs, in the same breath says she is highly fertile and get pregnant on BC at least twice.

What she doesnt seem to get is that there are a million mombie boards for her and we dont give a flying fuck about her, her brats or what she thinks.

And the one that has adopted children barely posts... Krummie (thanks Yurble i love that) has over 500!!!!!!!!!!!!! in two months.

Yurble, responding to the most salient of your points:


I just don't feel that (TCFL) is the same place that it was 6 months ago. Then, bingos were immediately quashed. At the time that I left I felt that the discussion about whether parents should be allowed on the board had been mishandled. Stacey seemed to take it personally (perhaps because she is a stepparent) that some people were questioning whether parents had a place on the board, and felt that they had a stake in the outcome of the discussion, despite not being the owner of the board. In my opinion, her response was extremely heavy-handed......Fencesitters who ask questions on a CF board are, in my opinion, looking for a CF perspective.

To be honest I agree here - I dislike their censorship (and have stated as much in postings) and the fact that the postings of some of the parents there post (slightly disguised) bingos. I feel that the site has become less attractive to me because of that. I have to admit that sometimes I come here just for relief, in the same way that after eating chocolate all afternoon one might relish a good steak and vegetables. We must recognise, however, that any board (a) takes much of its character from the owner/moderator and (b) will probably wither and die if the owner/moderator doesn't take into account the feelings and views of those that support it, and that (c) these facts are NOT contradictory.

Or, to put this from a more solipsist perspective, I don't relish TCFL as much as I used to, but still enjoy it to some extent. My choice then is to leave (pointless, since I still find it pleasant to interact there, and they haven't caused me any offence), or simply continue my activities there and put up with it not being exactly as I want it. I don't agree with everything about the way Stacey runs it, but do respect her right to make such decisions - just as if I were running a site I'd reserve the same right. I can, however, choose which postings I read there, and usually avoid those from parents. They simply don't interest me. As I stated in my original post, I've no idea *why* they would go to a childfree site, but it's their call. If TCFL ever swung so far to breeder-friendliness that I no longer liked it, I'd simply leave.

My main point though, is that they haven't, and are unlikely to. They are still a site that supports the childfree stance, and give support to those that follow this path, and the majority of their postings make this clear. An occasional posting from a mother, particularly one who has adopted, doth not it a breeder-friendly site make. Similarly, their dislike of certain slang terms does not, in itself, make it breeder-friendly.

Now, if the childfree philosophy were a majority viewpoint, supported and protected by governments, then it probably wouldn't matter. However, the fact is that in most countries we are discriminated against. To snipe amongst ourselves can only make the problem worse. I take SlumSlut's point that Bratfree has, at no time, stated a manifesto to make the childfree stance acceptable to breeders. However, like any group, alienating fence-sitters in the name of purity can only make the situation worse. And to cut the link to TCFL (I really can't be bothered to enter into semantic discussions about whether or not it's a "ban") seems to me to be short-sighted in the extreme.

The threads that people have linked to recently demonstrate to me that the board is now host to many activities that just don't strike me as being CF activities. For instance, I do think it is better if someone adopts rather than gives birth to another child the world doesn't need, but I don't think that person should (a) be showered with praise, and (b) be allowed to say things like "I was previously CF, until..." without being corrected on the definition of CF, (c) be allowed to bingo "It's different when..." without having the bingo recognized and called for what it is, or (d) not be told to cool down when aspects of being childed are mentioned in nearly every post.

It is indeed host to many opinions that IMO don't fit at a childfree board. (I can tell this from the topic headings, even though I don't read those that I have no interest in) - However, to extrapolate from this that the place is breeder-friendly is stretching the point more than a little! It is still a site where the majority of postings are in favour of the childfree lifestyle, albeit one with a more moderate zeitgeist that Bratfree.

I certainly wouldn't shower praise on someone who adopts - they are making a lifestyle choice, as much as anyone who spits out fifteen loaves, or one who gets their tubes tied - but I do find myself preferring the adoption choice to the breeding one, for those who like that sort of thing. I really can't see how approving the adoption choice over the breeding one is breeder-friendly. Surely:

- If someone does not have, nor want, children, and one of their reasons for this is the damage done to the environment by overpopulation

- and such a person feels that if someone DOES want children then they should adopt rather than breed

- then that person, by any sane definition of the word, is CHILDFREE!

even if they give at least grudging approval to the occasional PNB adopter!

This is not to say that the board doesn't have a purpose. It might be a place for the CF, childless, childed, and fencesitters to come together and explore their commonalities in a polite way, but to call it a CF refuge from a child-crazed world is simply misleading, given the current focus of the board. It's not a safe refuge if the childed are allowed to bingo with impunity--it's just not.

I guess we have to disagree on that - regular posters there soon learn who the parents are and simply avoid it. It's quite easy to avoid bingoes.

And wouldn't it be a tragedy if a whole bunch of CF people who disliked children went to TCFL looking for a refuge from a child-centric world and came to the conclusion that there are no like-minded people and all CF hold exactly the same views as the brainwashed and bigoted breeders?

It would indeed - however, given the huge number of postings from child haters, or those who don't want children, and the tiny few from breeders/adopters - there's very little chance of that at TCFL.

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Enough!
OMG Alan

Kimmie has NOT adopted any children. She has shat out THREE of her own. THREE.

After claiming she is infertile and has PCOS and had to take fertility drugs, in the same breath says she is highly fertile and get pregnant on BC at least twice.

What she doesnt seem to get is that there are a million mombie boards for her and we dont give a flying fuck about her, her brats or what she thinks.

And the one that has adopted children barely posts... Krummie (thanks Yurble i love that) has over 500!!!!!!!!!!!!! in two months.

Thanks for the info - I never read her posts, and have certainly never bothered to count them - I have a life. Like you, I don't give a fuck (flying or grounded) about her views, but thankfully she has a nauseating but informative avatar which makes them easy to avoid. As I stated previously, exactly WHY she posts at a CF site beats me, but if she's got the time...

Alan, the sidebar is for links that i/we LIKE.

TCFL was removed (or "banned", whatever) from the side-bar because I/we decided that I/we do not LIKE it anymore.

"I/we" refers to the fact that it was opened for discussion and most of the people who participated in said discussion were in favor of removing the link.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

Another TCFL member here that has decided that it isn't the place for me anymore. I HATE KIMMIE. I have barely posted over there for months because every fucking time I open the home page all I see is Kimmie, Kimmie, fucking Kimmie. I am tired of Stacey acting like we have no say whatsoever and blocking any thread that even attempts to question why she is allowed there. The thing is, there are several parents on that forum and I can attest that most of us had no idea that any of the others were parents before Kimmie joined our midst. That is because they know enough to SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THEIR KIDS. We don't want to hear how your vagina really wasn't ruined by childbirth or why you believe breastfeeding is necessary. WE DON'T GIVE A SHIT. And I know damn well you are lying anyway. Your vag was wrecked and you know it. Posting on a CF forum to tell us you understand us is a fucking pathetic joke. You are not one of us because you have kids you stupid bitch! ARGH!

Ah, that felt good. :spin

Alan, you have your place at TCFL and we have ours here. If you want to call us a "splinter sect" of Fundamental Childfreedom, that's your choice; certainly our numbers are low enough to appear cultlike. Simply put, I do not want to hear about anyone's kids, birth experiences or parenting when I sign on here, and I resent your plea for us to become more inclusive for the greater good. Please. I don't even fucking vote.

Alan, you have your place at TCFL and we have ours here.

er, I have a place here, too actually. I'm a registered member and I post.


If you want to call us a "splinter sect" of Fundamental Childfreedom, that's your choice;

Wow, what a great phrase. Wish I'd thought of it. Wish I knew what it meant. Don't recall ever using it, though.

certainly our numbers are low enough to appear cultlike. Simply put, I do not want to hear about anyone's kids, birth experiences or parenting when I sign on here, and I resent your plea for us to become more inclusive for the greater good.

Whereas I resent people not reading my posts properly and totally making no effort to understand what I'm saying. . Oh well, the world ain't perfect I guess.


Please. I don't even fucking vote.

Urm, congratulations, whatever.

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alan23


Whereas I resent people not reading my posts properly and totally making no effort to understand what I'm saying. . Oh well, the world ain't perfect I guess.

Since we're talking about things we resent, Alan, I resent how you came on here saying all this stuff about why it's OK if Kimmie posts on TCFL and it shouldn't matter to us over here at BF, and you referred at length to certain things to back up your statement which turned out not to even be accurate. Then someone pointed it out to you and you're all "Oh well I never read any of kimmie's posts after all." Basically, you came on here and ran your mouth about something you admit you know nothing about.

PLease explain to all of us how this is supposed to make anything else you have to say worth considering. Maybe I'll read it.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

I am between court cases right now. Hooray me! I will post more about them and my new charge later when I get home and have a stiff drink in my hand.

I decided to read each post by the Krummie. I had to. Everyone hates her and I have to see why. Yup, I am nosey like that. I did admit I have time on my hands. I learned a few things, I will say that. I do not know why she posts there and wonder if PMing a mod or the Admin to limit or exclude her would do any good.

I only saw a few times where she talked about HER brats, usually it was thread relevant. I am not sure why she talked about her vag. I saw the thread, and while many women do not have ripping, gaping maws after shatting a loaf, who cares if she does or not. I have always noted that Moos and many people in health care talk about things that really should be kept private.

I also noted that most of her posts were quite awhile ago and she seems to not be on there all that much anymore. Could mean she got bored and moved on when no one catered to her need for attention.

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alan23
If TCFL ever swung so far to breeder-friendliness that I no longer liked it, I'd simply leave.

It reached that point for me--or, rather, it reached the censorship limit for me--and at that point I left quietly, as had been requested. Some of the threads which were linked to in this thread convinced me that it has swung too far into breeder-friendliness, which is why I'm ranting about it here, but I can understand if you don't share the view that it has gone too far.

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alan23
I guess we have to disagree on that - regular posters there soon learn who the parents are and simply avoid it. It's quite easy to avoid bingoes.

It's easy to avoid them in daily life, too--I just tell the person voicing them to STFU if it's a stranger, and cut out any friends/family who would voice them--but it doesn't mean that I want to have to look out for it all the time when I'm on a CF board. Again, YMMV.

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alan23
Now, if the childfree philosophy were a majority viewpoint, supported and protected by governments, then it probably wouldn't matter. However, the fact is that in most countries we are discriminated against. To snipe amongst ourselves can only make the problem worse.

There are different opinions as to how a persecuted minority should behave. One model suggests that solidarity is the only way to gain power as a group. Yet others hold that if we cannot criticize, we deny our individuality. I am personally not interested in promoting a unified front of CFness at the cost of losing my forthrightness. I want to call a spade a spade, and any movement which demands conformity for the ultimate good isn't worth belonging to, as far as I'm concerned. I want CF people to be respected as individuals, with our diverse opinions, not accepted so long as we present a pretty enough picture to the outside world.

And these are simply different world views; there is no reconciling the fact that we have different opinions on how to approach the problems. The most we can do is recognize that both approaches have their merits, and downsides, and that a person can have a legitimate reason for not concurring with our own view.

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SlumSlut

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alan23


Whereas I resent people not reading my posts properly and totally making no effort to understand what I'm saying. . Oh well, the world ain't perfect I guess.

Since we're talking about things we resent, Alan, I resent how you came on here saying all this stuff about why it's OK if Kimmie posts on TCFL and it shouldn't matter to us over here at BF, and you referred at length to certain things to back up your statement which turned out not to even be accurate. Then someone pointed it out to you and you're all "Oh well I never read any of kimmie's posts after all." Basically, you came on here and ran your mouth about something you admit you know nothing about.

PLease explain to all of us how this is supposed to make anything else you have to say worth considering. Maybe I'll read it.

Sorry if you didn't understand my original posting. What I said was that it shouldn't matter to anyone at Bratfree whether the person who adopted posted at TCFL or not, and that inter-board sniping wasn't helping anyone. When Kimmie came into the discussion I pointed out that I never read her posts at all, but that again I couldn't see how her posting at TCFL was a problem for those at Bratfree. I also said that cutting the TCFL from the sidebar at Bratfree was short-sighted, as the childfree world is surrounded by hostile breeders and the childfree have to stick together.

If you can't comprehend what I was saying, I guess it's due to my failure to write lucidly enough. Sorry, but my literary skills haven't improved in the last hour or so, and I really can't make it any simpler without hyphenating the syllables of words or adding stick-figure illustrations. Guess you'll have to either ignore my postings, or work a little harder at your reading comprehension.

In any case, I doubt you'll have to put up with my convoluted prose much longer, since (given the obvious fact that diversity of opinion isn't too popular here) I'll probably be banned pretty soon. But thanks for your interest anyway.

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alan23
I'm a regular contributor to Childfree Life, and I think some of you guys are missing the point here.

One of the biggest complaints I see at childfree boards (including Bratfree) is the fact that breeders spit out one kid after another, and the damage to the environment this causes. The "keep ya legs together for the environment" mantra is one of the most frequent tropes that pops up here. I am withya on that one and agree, but it's not my main point of contention with breeders

But this particular person - for whatever weird reason - WANTS some brats, so what does she do? Instead of adding another team of mini-carbon-footprints to the environment she adopts sprogs that are already born. Surely she deserves some kudos for that. Kimmie has posted that she has physically given birth, but whether she has also adopted, I don't know. Also, I don't think that people who take care of, raise, adopt, or physically have children should get "kudos", simply because it's a choice and something that they must enjoy doing. If not, then they are martyrs who generally seek attention or they are doing it TO gain attention and therefore I don't like them either. They are using children for their own personal emotional gain and this isn't a good reason to acquire kid whether it's giving birth OR adopting, IMHO.

I've no idea why she posts at a childfree board - even one as non-militant as childfreelife (and I'm also bemused why the famous "Kimmie" does so) but if the mods accept her, surely that's their business. Personally, I exercise my right not to read such postings. I'm really not interested in throwing a tantrum over the fact that she's ALLOWED to post there! If she wants to exercise her freedom of speech by posting at a place where her opinions are against the mainstream - and has the mods' permission to do so - why shouldn't she? You can't tell me that no-one here has ever posted at a moo-board, just to give the doting parents a bit of a taste of the opposite view! It's no sweat off of my back who posts over there, but some of it makes for interesting conversation as does the content of many other sites. By discussing it over here, we are merely exercising our freedom of speech as well and no one need read it. While I have lurked on moomie boards quite a bit, I have NEVER posted on any of them for two reasons. 1)I am not a mother and have no business posting on a moo forum and 2)I respect their little corner of the universe and think it would be RUDE for a childFREE person to post on a forum created and frequented by childed people. However, I will continue to exercise my right to free speech and poke fun at them over here where the commentary is welcome and considered wonderful fodder for our entertainment..

Banning the link from your sidebar seems to me a bit of a wank, frankly. A bit like the new reformed southern baptists not talking to the old reformed southern baptists, or the "Next Generation" fans turning up their noses at "Enterprise" fans, or something! Are there now so many childfree people in the world, and do we now have so much power and clout, that we can spare the energy to fight amongst ourselves. I don't think so. I don't think that this software has the ability to BAN, across the board, what would amount to hundreds of members with varying IP addresses from an entire site. The link to that site was just removed based on the fact that we no longer consider that site as childfree and we don't want to appear to endorse it. It may be a delightful mixed bag of childed. semi-childed, and childfree people and an excellent melting pot of people for which many may enjoy being a member, but a CHILDFREE HAVEN it is most definitely NOT. If the "bitchy waiter" suddenly started posting about how breeders shouldn't be held responsible for their brats licking on the condiment bottles, how udder feeding is encouraged by him at the table. or that he thinks that moos should be allowed to change a shitty diaper on a booth seat, OR if he condoned it that his co-workers felt that way even if he didn't, then his site would be removed as well.

As for me, you can call me a @#$%&, bastard, fuckwit, pinko, fascist, pervert, whatever you like and all you'll get from me is an amused smile. But say I'm not childfree - in the sense that Bratfree accepts the term - and I'll pull your ears off and stuff 'em up your ass. Chance alive, I loathe the not-nosed, screeching, gurgling, smelly, incontinent, waddling little bastards, I'd crawl over broken glass to avoid having any of my own, and when I see someone else's twat-droppings I'll cross a freeway during peak-hour to avoid them. I decided I never wanted the things before I could read, and I've never wavered since. And like a lot of people here AND at Childfree Life, I detest the way those of us who chose not to breed are discriminated against, bingoed, sneered at, reviled, and have our pockets regularly emptied to provide handouts to those who choose to breed. I don't think that anyone ever singled out any member over there as not being childfree, EXCEPT THE PARENTS who post, although I think that the general consensus is that many of the UNchilded people who post over there are either childLESS OR they are flaming breeder pleasers, which most of us don't like very much. I do think though that people can be a member over there, take what they want from it and leave the rest, which sounds like what you are doing rather than being a breeder pleaser. It just doesn't seem to be happening with anywhere near the regularity that it's "turning" breeder pleaser, that's all.

But I really don't mind if someone who has adopted sprogs posts at a particular board. It's just a board. What WOULD be the tragedy is if a whole hoard of fence-sitters came here and went away with the idea that the childfree are just as brainwashed and bigoted as breedersI can't be responsible for pushing a fence sitter over to the childed side because that's a decision that only THEY can make. Only they know if or why they want children and quite frankly, if they are looking to other peoples' parenting decisions, whether it's childfree or childed, to make such a LIFELONG and important decision such as having kids SHOULD be, then that's so their problem. They are likely "fence sitters" about everything from having children to paper or plastic, with or without cheese, and whether to turn right onto the expressway or to go left and take the scenic route.

Holding "militant" childfree responsible for fence sitters making a decision to become parents would be like holding a host of party responsible for a drunk driver who CHOSE to get behind the wheel of car. It's THEIR decision to spawn and no one should be held accountable for that decision except them. Most of them already know what they want anyway and are just looking for validation, IMO..

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If YOU are the "exception" to what I am saying, then why does my commentary bother you so much?
I don't hate your kids, I HATE YOU!

what is with people coming on here and daring me to ban them? is this some new reality-tv game show where i'm not aware that i'm playing? first tele-pete, now alan: "durr, you guys don't like anyone to disagree with you; i'll probably be banned."

it is OBVIOUS you haven't read the rules, because it says right in there that disagreeing with the admins and mods is allowed, and that you should expect to receive a variety of strong opinions on things.

Blow me, Alan. I'm not going to ban you, but I'm not going to kiss your ass either.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

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SlumSlut


Blow me, Alan. I'm not going to ban you, but I'm not going to kiss your ass either.

Well that's a relief - I really can't see either of us enjoying it.

Glad to see that Concern Trolling gets a proper smackdown here.

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alan23
I guess we have to disagree on that - regular posters there soon learn who the parents are and simply avoid it. It's quite easy to avoid bingoes.

I can't imagine why any truly CF person would want to post on a board where they have to rummage through posts to weed out parents. I'm so glad Bratfree isn't like TCFL!

______________

- The human gene pool could use a little chlorine

Typical utter crap from Kimmie taken from multiple postings:

"I always wanted to have children. I have loved children since I was very young. I nannied for many years from the age of 12 up. "

"I have donated milk - I guess I live up to the term "moo""

"Doctors and Midwives are rarely right about size. My first was 9 lbs - they told me I would be lucky if he was 7 lbs Baby 2 was supposed to be 9 lbs and was 7 lbs. Baby 3 was supposed to be 8 lbs and basically was."

"Seriously, they need to call it "Welfare Mom Smart Phone Thumb" because I have 3 kids and my thumbs are fine. What I do not have is a Smart Phone...LOL!"

"Sooo happy I left my little boy intact. When he was born, we didn't really think about it. We just left him the way he was born. Now researching and looking up on all the information out there and hearing all these men who felt violated and angry for having a part of their body taken away from them without their consent we 100% made the right decision."

"I hope I do not get in trouble for this post, as I will be mentioning my "parenting statis" and I know it makes some people uncomfortable. I want to appologize in advance to them, as this post is not to make them feel uncomfortable. I just want to show Kristina that planning goes a long way - even under the worst of circumstances. "

God I hate her. When you pull up her posts, it has 53 pages!

:BS

Yep....classic facebook moo. If she's got that much time to post, WTF are her brats doing while she's at it? Good mother my pale Scottish arse.

Didn't she say she works at home and on the computer? Why are there no complaints on that site? Should I complain?

I posted in that thread and called her out for it. I told her that she was never childfree and that there are probably plenty of American kids (assuming she is American) that she could have adopted instead of one from some shitpile like Ethiopia.

Of course they deleted the post and gave me a "first warning" via PM. I told the admin it's not my fault they pander to breeders and questioned why they tolerate breeders and bingoers on their site when there are plenty of moo / breeder sites they can go to.

Then told him to take his "first warning" and shove it. larious I'm sure they'll ban my account now, but meh, the fact that they would warn me about calling out a breeder speaks volumes about where their loyalties lie. Bratfree is much better.

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marco polo
I posted in that thread and called her out for it. I told her that she was never childfree and that there are probably plenty of American kids (assuming she is American) that she could have adopted instead of one from some shitpile like Ethiopia.

Of course they deleted the post and gave me a "first warning" via PM. I told the admin it's not my fault they pander to breeders and questioned why they tolerate breeders and bingoers on their site when there are plenty of moo / breeder sites they can go to.

Then told him to take his "first warning" and shove it. larious I'm sure they'll ban my account now, but meh, the fact that they would warn me about calling out a breeder speaks volumes about where their loyalties lie. Bratfree is much better.

:hs So you got a warning for not kissing someone's ass? Really!!! WTF!! When were adults forced to kiss someone else's ass - unless they are signing their paycheck? Last time I checked, it was posters who supported forums.

Thank God/Nature for bratfree.

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lab mom