2637 Fugly (flotsamblog.com)

Great Gods that is one seriously FUGLY baby. It has no neck. I can imagine the drain on the insurance comany THAT thing is, and is going to continue to be.

This same thing happened to an ex-friend of mine. Baybee A died at 4.5 months, baybee B born at 5.5 months and died. Had they lived, they both would have had dreadful problems.

I glossed over moo's blog. What a martyr. I don't care how much they make, but I can tell you, OB nurses and nurses in NIC units DO NOT get paid enough money to deal with the shitty attitudes, snot-nosed dispositions, and sense of entitlement that comes from these knocked-up cunts.

Seriously people, I'm a realist, so this may sound cold. Let babies like this die peacefully. How horrible is it to be forced into an existence where you will be fraught with terrible disabilities, health problems, and just a plain 'ol miserable life. Pahrunts are so fucking selfish.

And to air your dirty laundry on such a blog is so tacky. Aside from being a martyr, moo is also an attention whore.

Ok, this fool had two other babies that were born prematurely and died, then decided to have another oner that is also very sick and possibly on its way out, too? That is fucking MADNESS!!!! I agree- just let the babies die in peace! If their lives were meant to be, they will live and flourish! This, to me, is very sick, sad and selfish behavior! Stupid-ass moos don't even want to let them go just to keep that attention wheel spinning.

But hey, aren't most moos martyrs and attention whores, not to mention sap all the life out of their friends and families and whatever or whomever else they can?

This sorry sorry sack of a human had two OTHER babies who also suffered and died?!!?
You know it reminds me a little of Munchausen by proxy, in which a caregiver, usually the parent makes their child sick to get attention. She knows the odds of her being able to have a healthy baby. She knows she’s going to “make” a sick baby. What a fucking monster.

Dear Jeebus, that is a HIDEOUS baby. =_= It and the moo are disgusting. Just let the poor thing go, don't keep draining the taxpayers' wallets to keep the focus on you and your baybee 'fighting for life'...

"I glossed over moo's blog. What a martyr. I don't care how much they make, but I can tell you, OB nurses and nurses in NIC units DO NOT get paid enough money to deal with the shitty attitudes, snot-nosed dispositions, and sense of entitlement that comes from these knocked-up cunts."

That's the damn truth, isn't it? I don't know why it doesn't occur to these Moos that these people are trying to HELP her baybee. I feel sorry for the people who have to deal with her nasty attitude. And the commenting Moos just keep cheering her on.

They aren't trying to kill her baybee. She is the one who created this situation, by not accepting she's not meant to bear a child. Well, this is what you get...a sprog that needs all the medical assistance known to man to keep it alive.

I hope I'm not in her insurance pool.

And no mention of Dud, other than she and he were on the verge of breaking up because he didn't want to do fertility treatments. I wonder how he feels about it now?

Fucking hell, what attention-seeking drivel. And the comments are worse - pass the sick bag please.

Did you see my entry #2634 (two-faced fresh crotchdropping)?

This freak of nature, along with #2637, will be huge drains on the medical system.

Keep working more hours, CF people! Millions of breeders depend on us.

I agree catmeow. A few years ago there was an article about a girl born with no face. Another drain on the insurance companies. Talk about horrific..........

KFLL, did the breeders of the no-face girl try to get the breeders of the two-faced freak to donate a face to her?

Keep working more hours, CF people! Millions of breeders depend on us.

Okay, is anyone else creeped out by being able to very clearly see the veins in that thing's head and chest? Is it that underdeveloped that it doesn't evne have normal skin thickness, or is it normal for a baby to look that way?

That baby ha so, so many problems and it's beyond inhumane that that bitch of a "mother" is insisting on keeing the oor thing alive. No, the baby isn't fighting and being s tough little trooper in the face of life-threatening illness - she's being kept alive like a goddamn experiment. This saga reminds me muchly of the Nazi experiment involving keeping a severed dog head alive via wires - that's what's hapening to that poor child. She's always hooked up to some machine that breathes for her or circulates her blood or what-not. Normal, healthy babies do not require this much intervention and it should be a crime that this woman is allowed to keep her child alive when it clearly will not remain alive for long. Why can't this shit be considered child abuse?

Honestly, a little part of me hopes a nurse goes into the NICU one night and unhooks the baby's ventilation machine and lets it ass away peacefully and with whatever dignity it has left. I don't even think I'd torture my worst enemies like this, let alone someone who is innocent.

I was creeped out by that too, Cambion. Poor thing. And not only to do this to a baby, but to post pictures and comments of the torture online is beyond monstrous.
**But we CF are the child haters and want to hurt the chyyldren.**
Riiiight.

Looks like it's hit the fan now. Check the latest entry, where the blog author has posted something about this site.

http://flotsamblog.com/

People, when you go to visit that site, open a new browser and copy the URL into that browser. Don't go there directly from this site. Or, if you do, make sure you have "referrer logging" turned off on your firewall.

It doesn't look like anyone has trolled her blog, which is a good thing. Trolling someone's blog is just as bad as having parents come over here and troll this place.

Despite the fact that nobody trolled over there, I predict we'll have a bunch of angry trolls here shortly.

Wow! Moo is good with the fact-checking... Too bad she didn't put that much effort into finding out about all of the complications that IVF babies tend to have -- then maybe her 'beautiful' little preemie (whose far-beyond 'natural' veiny little body, I have to say, reminded me of the raw bull's balls Andrew Zimmern ate on his show) wouldn't have to suffer through having tubes shoved down her throat and up her nose, being prodded with needles, staying 'doped up' to deal with the pain and on occasion turning 'pale, bluish and floppy' as she has her oxygen supply suddenly cut off because her little underdeveloped lungs can't breathe on their own... Which is why she's attached to a machine that 'helps' her breathe -- but, hey, her drug-filled blood circulates all on its own... So that's good...


*Here's a link to the bull's ball picture -- I had Moo's blog window open at the same time, and for a second I had the 2 confused! Luckily the bull's ball wasn't wearing a hat, so I could tell them apart.

Ack-tually, I thought the picture of the baby and the dog's head did look somewhat similar under those conditions.

Anyone here read "Stiff" by Mary Roach? It's full of stories including / not limited to the dog's head experiment.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

In the interest of full disclosure, I want to start by saying that I'm good friends with Alexa. Ironically, our friendship works in part because she is so singularly fantastic about celebrating my permanently childless existence regardless of what's happening in her life at any given time, but I'm really not here to defend her, so I'll stop there.

I have no intention of being an angry troll and I hope no one else does either. I would like to respectfully say, though, as an adamantly CF person who has been bingoed to death at family gatherings and is perfectly capable of understanding your frustration, that I don't think this sort of discussion helps the CF cause. If you can't tone it down, keep your forum private, or at least avoid direct linkage for the sake of sparing a parent's feelings, consider making an effort for fellow CF people, because none of us benefit from this kind of extremism. It's tiring when parents get defensive around me, and I think they would be less likely to if they weren't so painfully aware that some CF people are eager to turn them into a target for their social frustration, shooting first and asking questions ... well, never, I don't think.

I get all the ways that being CF in a parenting-oriented society sucks. I really, really do. I walk into baby showers with the grim determination of a D-Day soldier washing up onto a French beach, and it only takes someone about thirty seconds to ask me when I'm going to have a baaaaaybeeeee. But I think this sort of forum just makes a lot of those social issues worse. And I'm absolutely positive you have something better to do, especially since you don't even have to hire a babysitter first.

All I ask is that you think about it, for everyone's sake. It would also be lovely if you would leave my friend alone from here on out, as I think you've more than made your point, but that one is more of a personal favor than a matter of social responsibility. All the same, I'd be much obliged. Thanks.

Hoo boy. We're assholes, low-life scum, troglodytes, bitches, bastards, inhuman, and the lowest knuckle-dragging version of humanity who can find no one to sleep with them, Oh Goddess of the Parenting Blog? Well, consider the following:

I was the only one to visit my great-gran right before she died. I was the one who looked after her when the nurses wouldn't. I helped her around to the lounge, cafeteria, and everywhere else...spent all my money on her, and refused any help from anyone else...oh, someone pat me on the back, quick!

And for the record, I have a boyfriend. Funny how everyone ASSumes that we, as childfree, only have no children because no one will get with us. -_-

I pat you on the back because I am going through the same sort of thing right now. However, I fail to see the connection with the topic of the thread.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

Forgot to mention: Gran couldn't breathe for herself during the last week of her life...it was awful and we decided to disconnect the respirator. Is that any more inhuman than keeping this poor premature baby alive? The baby is not 'fighting', it is simply breathing because the machine is breathing for her--it must be terrible being brought into the world when you don't have a chance at survival except on machines...

Oh, yeah, that is relevant to the topic... what can I say. My GP's are not quite at that point yet, thankfully, and I hope they never will be.

Schnozz - I don't pretend to speak for everyone, but I think the problem a lot of us have with this is the artificial prolonged suffering of a life form for the benefit of a third party (the mother) who is furthermore writing a BLOG about it and then complaining about the unwanted attention. I guess when someone advertises something to the world they should only be subject to editorializing that suits their need for positive reinforcement? Or maybe they should keep things within their social comfort zone if they can't stand to hear things that don't groove with their reality tunnel.

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

I'm not going to be an angry troll, either. But here's the thing. When you say such awful things about children, you sound bitter. As though you are jealous. I'm not saying you are. That's just the way it sounds.
Also, any woman having sex with a man could become pregnant, despite birth control. And if you became pregnant and decided to keep the child, it could be born early. Are you saying you'd decide not to keep your child alive? How can you know until you're in that position?

Poofy, I appreciate the clarification ... I did understand that concerns over the ethical complexity of ART (if you'll forgive the paraphrase) were involved. I just think that point has been made.

And dealing with the larger issue, of course CFers have a right to editorialize. Of course we have a right to say all kinds of things, thanks to freedom of speech. I'm talking about what we should say, not what we CAN say. (For starters, when this sort of issue arises in the future, focusing on the issue instead of insulting the parties involved by comparing them to a scrotum would probably be helpful.)

Regarding what we SHOULD say, obviously my "should" may not line up with yours, but I just wanted to provide a different perspective and hopefully provoke some thought. I think there's probably a more productive way to voice concerns--even if your focus is on furthering your own childfree agenda, rather than being nicey-nice to everyone on the Internet.

It wasn't so much a comparison as an off-hand observation. Still, I didn't mean to offe.... well, that's clearly a lie, so I won't even bother. Anyway, I don't think the 'parties involved' are too worried about being compared to a scrotum by a random person on the internet, because the 'parties involved' are probably more focused on struggling to take that next breath being pumped into their lungs by the machine they're hooked to. And I'm not too concerned about any of the other 'parties involved' because, well, they put up the pictures and information so people would look, read and comment -- and, yes, there's a chance those parties might get comments they don't think they 'should' get. Besides, none of us posted our not-so nicey-nice comments on the 'parties involved' page -- the 'parties involved' sought them out, chose to read them even after the 'tone' became clear (and by the way, these posts are focusing on the issue -- the topic is the 'fugliness' of the 'parties involved'), then chose to make their own not-so nicey-nice comments.

On the VERY. FIRST. PAGE. it says that nobody has to bite their tongues, and we can feel free to 'let it all out'. We can talk about how fucked up we think it is to see a kid attached to all sorts of contraptions to keep it's disturbingly frail body alive because someone just HAAAAAAD to have a child of their own -- no matter the cost to the child. We can also talk about how ugly the child of their own is. That's all part of letting it all out. If people can't handle that, then it's best if they go to a website whose mission statement mentions keeping some of it in.

If the issue is talking about how ugly someone's baby is versus any real ethical or philosophical issue ... well, then I have to revert to my comment about how that sort of discussion is detrimental to the CF community as a whole, which is all I was trying to say. I'm not saying you can't say it, that you don't have a right to say it, that you should be legally stopped from saying it. I even understand WHY you say it, having endured as much whining about how I'll have no one to take care of me when I'm old as anyone.

I just think you're shooting yourself in the foot. Which would be fine, if it didn't affect me or other CF people. But as more people choose to be childfree and the topic gets a little more attention on the Internet and elsewhere, more people are also throwing me sidelong glances, wondering if I'm as disgusted by them as your overall frustration makes you out to be. People sort of wince away from me sometimes, expecting me to be a jerk about their minivan or their Bob the Builder collection or God knows what. I don't expect you to give a shit about that happening to me, really, but I do think you should be concerned about what other effects it has on public acceptance of the childfree lifestyle.

Even if your social motivations are purely selfish and have nothing to do with any desire to be kind, it seems counterproductive to complain about the lack of that and then take shots at people--or their kids, which, come on, is guaranteed to be inflammatory. You can turn that into an argument about how parents are so wrapped up in their own children that they can't separate themselves from their offspring, or you can realize that drive-by insults like that are damaging to your odds of ever being socially accepted and left the hell alone, which is what so many people here seem to want. It's certainly what I want as a CF person--respect, tolerance, and so on.

And if you need to vent, there are plenty of ways to vent, even publicly, that don't lead the object of your irritation right to your doorstep. I really don't see what harm that would do to your forum needs, especially if you'd rather not be bothered by parents who can't help jumping the fence and speaking up here once they're aware of what you're saying about them.

I've vented before, complete with an image of the URL. Which is a nice way to bitch about someone without leaning forward to do it directly in their ear. I'm not necessarily proud of that, but that method at least avoids escalating an already tense social dynamic. I don't see the request for even that slight increase in tact as an oppressive one that's going to infringe on your genital-to-human comparison activities.

I guess I have the same objections to this sort of talk that a decent Christian would have to Jerry Falwell. If you can't understand where I'm coming from with that, then fine, but I'm hoping at least some people here can grasp the connection between extremism and social/political strife, and make an effort, if nothing else, to confine their vitriol to a group of people who have a chance in hell of sympathizing with it. In the long run, I would expect that approach to make life a hell of a lot easier for you anyway, unless you actually enjoy the backlash generated by your outrage. But that hasn't been my impression from what people here have said, and I'm willing to take their word for it.

Thinking that kid is ugly isn't a childed/childfree thing -- it's a having-working-eyes thing. Would it make you feel better to know that I've heard plenty of parents say other people's kids are ugly, and that I'm pretty certain they'd think your friend's kid is hideous (not everybody believes all babies are beautiful -- it doesn't mean that we hate them or wish them harm)?

Don't get me wrong, I DO think people should take bell_flower's advice and not troll OR lead back to this page -- but I definitely don't think we should have to censor ourselves or hold back our true feelings out of fear of a parent stumbling upon this site (or seeking it out) and thinking badly of us.

As for this discussion being detrimental to the entire CF community -- I think that as the topic gets more attention, what people will see is that the CF community is full of...people. Very different people, with very different values and some VERY different opinions. Imagine that...like any other group, the CF community is not some monolithic entity composed of perfectly identical units who have the exact same thoughts, feelings and opinions...

Believe me, I understand where you're coming from -- because you're not the first person to come from that place...you want us to be a tad more nicey-nice in the hopes that one day parents might forgive us for choosing to be childfree -- and maybe even accept, or *gasp* respect our life-choices? You haven't realized that the 'sidelong glances' and treatment you get aren't related to the specifics of your lifestyle choice, but to the fact that you've chosen something different from the majority -- and it tends to make people feel insecure, paranoid and like their choices are being judged (and, yes, sometimes they are) when things aren't kept 'within their social comfort zone'.

I don't enjoy the backlash, but I'm also not particularly bothered by it. I don't need anyone else's approval to live my life the way I want to, and I don't care if other people don't agree with my opinions because I'm not trying to force them on anyone else. It's fine with me if some people think the kid's cute, or that her suffering is 'worth it' because her mom so desperately wanted a kid. I don't begrudge them their opinions, even if I don't agree with them.

You have to say, what about the quality of life, If this child, does survive, what other medical problems, what other expenses, will be needed to save this life, how many others could be saved instead.

Look at old persons medicine, a neglected area, because they spend thousands more on keeping alive a child that nature, god, or the flying spaghetti monster, has decided that it may not be the best thign for it to live.

theres been stories in the Uk, about similar events, a child born, blind, deaf, half a brain, could cry or move, and yet the parents spend thousands (via the nhs), to keep this thing alive, when it will die in a year anyway.

Does it mean that billions can be spent to keep alive for 3 months 1 year, there has to be a point where the benefits outweigh the expense.

I say If it cannot live beyond massive medical interventions, then the best thing to do is to let it go. Keeping it alive in such dire straights, is unfair to it, and to everyone around the parents.

If we stop speaking what we feel, a great freedom that most western people have, then we are giving the implied consent to more and more unnecessary medical interventions.

The greatest evil occurs when good people remain silent. To paraphrase, wont someone think of the child. Just imagine if it is concious enough to feel whats going on. Thats unfair. BUT a lot of parents feel that anything to save that child, Why? because they beleive their dna is superior? Because they "wanted" a child so bad they will do anything to keep it alive?

sometimes the best thing to do is to let a person go, give them some dignity in death that they never got in life.

EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion, no one has to read what we say. i dont think anyone trolled their site. Yet we are in the wrong for saying what we beleive and feel. I kept out of this, because i have a few ideas that some may think is dangerous, but i do beleive in them, and thats my right to say it.

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I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein