2637 Fugly (flotsamblog.com)

"Why do you care what we think, anyway?"
Because, we're the cool ones now, having multiple interests and everything. No matter how old you get, the cool ones always rule.

You with your logic and reason. I don't know what we're going to do about that.

And I apologize about masturbating my brain all over the place...but it was fun. Thank you for your indulgence.

:spin

"It truly is the one commonality that every designation of humans you can think of has, there's at least one asshole."
--Me

Well, technically, you haven't done a good job of sticking to the issue of this thread. You've kind of hijacked it and changed into something completely different -- but kudos for not overtly attacking anyone.

Also, I'd say that expecting both sides to keep their comments to their own respective corners of the internet isn't all that unrealistic -- the fact that we haven't trolled the other site, despite their saying offensive things about us, shows that it's entirely possible. And my post about the striking similarity between the kid and the testicle came AFTER your friend's post.

Whether you got paid for the article or not, it's still a big deal to be published -- I wasn't being snarky (not even about the product placement thing, because I thought it was a very funny, clever way to slip that in), because if you have something to sell, you'd be a fool not to push it whenever an opportunity presented itself.

I will admit that the first mistake was made on this side -- but the second, much bigger, mistake was what prompted the evolution. Nobody saw that link except your friend. She chose to create this whole conflict by making the discussion -- that really and truly would have been kept amongst the members of this board -- known to her readers, with what seems to be a pretty clear intent.

And since your friend didn't post an exact link (just gave a boatload of clues to make the search easy), her readers DID have to seek us out in order to see the exact posts she referred to and quoted -- so that 'zero seeking involved' stuff is pretty inaccurate.

In reference to Fishy's question about adoption:

Yes, adoption can be a long and tedious process for some. On the other hand, so can IVF and parenting in general. Parenting requires infinite amounts of patience in and of itself. If you CAN be patient enough to go through the process of IVF over and over, but CAN'T be patient enough to go through the adoption process, then something is wrong with you. And I'd bet my last buck that you're not patient enough to be a parent either.

Case in point, my sister and her husband just adopted a baby girl roughly a month ago. It took less than 3 months from the time they put in their application to the time they got the call. So, sometimes adoption isn't such a hideous process after all. The point is, if people weren't so hung up on replicating their own DNA, the world might be a nicer place for all, and we could all be living on a healthier planet.

"the fact that we haven't trolled the other site, despite their saying offensive things about us, shows that it's entirely possible."

I would say that this thread at least can be consider evidence that it's NOT possible, though your point is taken that you and your peers didn't commit that error in particular. I do think that someone generally will. And really, they're free to, based on the same freedom of speech everyone on the Internet touts all the time. It might be rude of them, but so is most of what's said here, so I'm not sure it's objectively true that "jumping the fence" is actually wrong. Trespassing is only illegal in physical space, so all you've got left is "rude," and manners don't seem that important here in the first place. They shouldn't have come in, but you shouldn't have left the gate open and mailed them an invitation, and then we're back where we started, where everyone is just kind of sucking, so what can you do. I don't understand the focus on that particular action, which doesn't seem any more socially reprehensible to me than anything else that's gone on.

"I will admit that the first mistake was made on this side -- but the second, much bigger, mistake was what prompted the evolution."

I think that's how it usually works, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic. You make a mistake, the other side ups the stakes, then you make a third mistake by taking the bait and responding, yadda yadda, official clusterfuck, et cetera.

"And since your friend didn't post an exact link (just gave a boatload of clues to make the search easy), her readers DID have to seek us out in order to see the exact posts she referred to and quoted -- so that 'zero seeking involved' stuff is pretty inaccurate."

Nice touch on using my own words! But if you're going to do that, I'd like it if you considered all of them (and I realize there is an alarming number of them). I've said it before, but if you didn't see it, I'm talking about the bloggers, not the trolls. Trolls are a different story, at least the ones who fight fire with fire and then are surprised when the result is more fire. I don't see that as productive either, and any bingoing they accidentally commit is just going to strengthen your bitterness. You can certainly argue that anyone typing this stuff into a Google box was just sniffing out drama out of curiosity. I wouldn't contradict you on that, especially since I've done it myself in other situations.

"And my post about the striking similarity between the kid and the testicle came AFTER your friend's post."

I was just using it as an example because that is the very kind of insult I'm talking about and it was the first one that came to mind. I'll clarify: insults that are similar in nature to comparing a baby to animal balls tend to be considered incendiary. I should have said "severed dog head," but that distinction seems pretty arbitrary.

"Schnozz believes she is the moral police for the childfree movement."

Not sure how the opinions I've voiced here can be metaphorically equated with arresting and prosecuting someone. "Moral police" is just a mostly meaningless buzzphrase intended to alarm people, just like "sanctity of marriage" or "family values." If you're trying to say that I'm sitting here telling people they shouldn't be doing what they're doing, then yes, but I don't see how that distinguishes me from everyone else on the entire Internet, much less this board.

Feh, thanks for your response. I'd say everything is about as cleared up for me as it's going to get, both good and bad. People are obviously getting frustrated with my use of this thread whether I'm CF or not, and that was easier to ignore when I had something to accomplish. So, having made my various points about twenty-four times, I'm thinking it's time to make like a baby and head out.

Peace.

I'm not a blogger, so maybe someone who is can help clear something up...

If a referral link leads the blogger back to the page where the link to their site was posted, then the chick from the other site was dropped directly on the front page -- with the 'let it all out' message at the top -- right? On that page, the unregistered person who posted the link to that site didn't leave a comment about the contents of it -- so she wasn't actually confronted with a page full of insults flung at her, right? So that would mean that after she read the warning -- and saw the comments posted about the contents of some of the others sites the rant page links to, which definitely strongly hint at the tone of this site -- she decided to come to the comments section to find the thread about her kid (because there was no link on the 'Fugly' thread to her site until after her comment) anyway, right?

So even though she didn't have to do any seeking to find the site that linked to her page -- she did have to do a little seeking to find the comments, right?

I'm not trying to start this whole mess up again... I'm just curious about that...

Can we all ignore Schnozz, he/she is nothing but a breeder pleaser. BORING

just a few last points Boards have faqs for a reason. http://www.refugees.bratfree.com/read.php?2,77 its here


and feh you are great, i love hearing you rant. Its made me reconsider some of my thoughts. so keep doing it. You make a lot of sense at least some of the time LOL. so do the other posters. I may disagree sometimes, but it doesnt mean your always wrong.

and we dont have an agenda, we arent concerned about controlling the planet, The idea that we are all in league with the powers of darkness to turn everyone into childfree. Thats a stupid myth.

I come here, to rant, to complain, i have a stressful life, things that a lot of people dont know about on here. and yet i see badly behaved kids, WHO are never taught manners by their bad parents. And they are worshipped. Stories like that thats caused this is actually a good thing, look at the conversation, look at the interest. We have discussed it, over and over, explaining what we see is a good or reasonable idea. its provokes discussion. Like in america the debate societies. Freedom of speech, freedom of thought. its the greatest thing ever.

this site stops us from going amok.. It looks like this post is finally stopping. perhaps some of the other visitors may have seen a truth, in our words. maybe not. but thats ok.. we havent a plan to rule the world. we just want to be left alone to live how we want to live.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Jesus fucking christ almighty! Can you fucking goddamned trolls just leave our site already? Take your little crusade to win respect for Alexa and her shitty situation and shove it up your asses.

1. You're not wanted here
2. You're making assholes of yourselves
3. You aren't making any of us feel bad
4. You won't change our minds
5. You're proving that you've got way too much idle time on your hands when, from the sounds of it, you should be off doing TMIJITW!!!!!!!!!

I'm done with this particular post thread, the low-IQ'ness is making my head explode.

Hey fellow CF posters on this board, what say we go on over to Alexa's board and start posting shit????? How would the breeder trolls enjoy THAT one!!!!!!!!!

Here is a little bit for the potluck dinner:

In Russia, and in other parts of Eastern Europe, there is a superstition that goes:

If you have a small baby, say under 6 months old, and people (strangers, this doesn't apply to family or close friends) say "What a cute baby!" it is considered BAD LUCK. If they say "What an UGLY baby!" it is considered GOOD LUCK. Google "russian superstitions" or read http://konstantin2005.blogspot.com/2005/09/russian-superstitions-part-2.html


So, Alexa should be THANKING us. We are doing her a FAVOR whether we like it or not. I can't believe I didn't remember this sooner.





[Editorial: I tried to post JUST the paragraph on superstitions to Alexa's blog by going there independently of this board, but COMMENTS ARE CLOSED. What a Sniper!]

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"I have learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is easy and fun as hell"

:eatu

Of course comments are closed! They can dish it out, but they can't take it. Saint Schnozz the Breeder Pleaser and the other trolls should just go back to "writing" their boring little blogs. At least we can entertain differences of opinion here.

Of course they've closed the comments! Yes, they sure can dish it out but don't want to take it. And good gawds, read the comments to moo's latest blog entry. What a bunch of delusional, whacked-out dreamers. They must be on some pretty good shit.

It's laughable how upset they all are over our posts. Seriously. Can you imagine the pure hell her life is? And is going to continue to be for a long, long time? Does she think ours is the only board out here like this? Get a fucking grip.

For that little baby's sake, I really DO hope she comes away from her preemie days unscathed and leads a normal life, but from the sounds of things, that is highly unlikely, and that sucks because she was kind-of "forced" into this life. I don't think this is what the universe has in mind for that little baby.

Oh, and Schnozz, rude, just like you! You've described yourself and your other hostile, bitter, troll moomies to a T! Congrads!

"........consider evidence that it's NOT possible, though your point is taken that you and your peers didn't commit that error in particular. I do think that someone generally will. And really, they're free to, based on the same freedom of speech everyone on the Internet touts all the time. It might be rude of them, but so is most of what's said here, so I'm not sure it's objectively true that "jumping the fence" is actually wrong. Trespassing is only illegal in physical space, so all you've got left is "rude," and manners don't seem that important here in the first place."

Bloody hell, the moo troll army has invaded! Shouldn't you be spending time with your kids, rather than on a CF internet board?

All I can say is the same as Peppertree: if people weren't so anxious to replicate themselves (i.e. they must have a child at all costs) with no thought to the future, then there wouldn't be such a problem with human overpopulation and other species would actually stand a chance of surviving and living their own lives. That's why I have a big problem with all this expectation of a 'right' to have a child and people shoving their brats into my face (metaphorically speaking).

Regarding the baby in the blog, I'm not heartless, just indifferent. I do not want the already-living to suffer and die, just for humans to stop breeding so damned much.

As for the moo's comment about having a trauma in childhood or a bad life, that's just a load of bollocks. Not all of us have had shit childhoods and to try and insult our intelligence by suggesting so is frankly nonsensical. You might be trying to achieve some moral high ground, but you're making yourself look an idiot.

Ok, I can't let this slide: the British 'having bad teeth' insult, I think you might want to look at some of your fellow Americans. Not all of you have pearly white, straight gnashers either! Not an anti-American dig at all, I love the US and most Americans, just not ignorant moo-trolls.

I think we can all agree that ignorance and cruetly on any platform is wrong.

"Breeding" as it has been defined is also on my list of things that should be banned. Along with talking in "Text Code," tapered-leg pants of any-kind, mullets - especially on women, and George Bush.

"Parenting" is something that takes practice, skill, and a fucking brain. And, even though I am a "disgusting Troll-Moo," I am of the camp that people should have to pass some sort of Federal Certification Program before they're allowed to procreate. Thus, putting an end to "Breeding."

I'm not out to get anoyone, or try to piss anyone off, or sligshot you any "bingos." I just think that cruelty for cruelty's-sake is wrong. Ranting or otherwise. Being mean isn't letting the cork out of the kettle..it's just being mean.

That said -- I'll leave your boards, and apologize for the intrusion.

we dont mind rational parents, trolling is when a person comes to a site for a reason to rant get a rise, or cause trouble.

saying they know better.

But a rant board is just that. no childfree on this has killed a kid.. yet. its getting the bile out of your brain onto a neutral medium, its a cathartic experience. cruelty for cruelty sake, yes.. but depends on your terms.

*********************************************************************************************************************************
I just post the stories, for interest.. for everyone

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
- A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act III, Scene ii

Voltaire said: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

H.L.Mencken wrote:"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Stephanie, you're correct in how the referral links work.

I personally found the thread through the "the Nazi experiment involving keeping a severed dog head alive via wires" quote.

But please carry on.

I almost answered the Moo who insisted we all had bad childhoods. I had a lovely childhood, but Where's the shame in having a bad childhood? It's not as if we can pick our parents and we all know parenting doesn't necessarily make someone a better person. Just open a newspaper.

Gack, and what about the Moo who said that if we didn't want increased insurance costs, all we had to do is pick another policy? No amount of explanation is going to help someone who doesn't have a clue about basic financial concepts like insurance. That's one that has been sitting at home on her ass way too long.

"I just think that cruelty for cruelty's-sake is wrong. Ranting or otherwise. Being mean isn't letting the cork out of the kettle..it's just being mean."

You are tossing word "cruel" around freely when it does not apply. Calling a baby "fugly" is simply mean, not cruel.

The real issue here is that Alexa could have looked at the mean comment, A COMMENT THAT REQUIRED AN EXPEDITION TO FIND, considered the source, chosen to focus on doing TMIJITW, and gone on her merry way.

Instead, she chose to make a blog entry out of it with predictable results: approximately 50,000 defensive, hostile mothers expressed their shock and outrage (OMGWTFBBQ!) on her blog, then waddled over here to troll our page.

I suspect Alexa got exactly what she wanted: lots of stroking from the Moo community about her heroism in general, and lots of hating on those evil childfree people who dare to ask questions about medical bills and pain and suffering. And she didn't have to lift a finger, other than priming the pump a little bit at the beginning.

If this didn't involve a chyyyyyyyyld, nobody would have batted an eye.

It's amusing, really. There are approximately 1,245,778 web sites where one can discuss all aspects of motherhood. But the 5 childfree sites on the web are a thorn in the side of the Moo Cult. They can't stand our very existence, and they won't be satisfied until the childfree sites are shut down, or at the very least, trolled into oblivion.

It says a lot more about them than it does us.

My hat's off to you, bell_flower. Well said.

I had an awesome childhood, too, which is actually part of the reason I am CF. I saw how much fun life could be and I didn't want anything to tie me down. I was not spoiled by any means and my parents were REAL parents.

I love how some of these smug moos look down their noses at anyone who has chosen to be CF and assume that they "don't have what it takes" "you must have had a bad childhood" or assume you have health issues. As if, just because you've bred, you've exemplified yourself as the model of propriety, health, and well-being. Bullshit.

I have children - not that I think that defines me at all...it is just a thing I wanted, and therefor did. I have spent some time reading through all of your posts, and I have to say that I was surprised. I expected EVERYTHING over here to be...well, mean. I read a few rants that might upset people with children, and only a very few targeted at specific people. Most of the things here seem pretty normal. I am sorry that I assumed everything would be ugly and mean. It shows how closed-minded I can be sometimes. And the fact remains that this is a rant board - to vent and to feel safe about it. I knew that when I read the first page. I chose to come in and read further.

While I don't think it is nice to be mean to people, I think everyone who posts here regularly has valid point - if people don't like what they are reading, then stop freaking reading it. That is what I read on mommy-blogger sites all the time. And I agree.

I said this on my tiny little blog to someone who has decided to not have children, but wanted to say it here too...

Think about a fantastic book you have read, an amazing song you have heard, perhaps the most wonderful movie you have ever seen... you want to tell your friends about it - you want them to share in it too...because it brought you so much joy. I think that is what parents are trying to do with the child-free people. I am not saying I agree...but I think that is partly what they are doing...trying to share something that was meaningful to them.

For me (and I am only speaking for me here) being a parent is a fantastic experience. I love watching my kids learn and grow. I like showing them things that I think are cool. I like seeing them grow into individuals, and knowing I was part of it. It is a great experience that I wouldn't want to miss.

At the same time, it is hard. It is full of heartache and frustration and again - they are individuals so they have the ability to talk back and drive me up the wall. They make bad choices, and I have to stand by and let them learn from them. They obviously have a huge financial impact on our lives.

I can see very real arguments FOR and AGAINST children. And like I said to a comment on my blog, you all have made the HARD choice by deciding not to have them. I don't think it was the wrong one. It sounds like you had all the facts and know what you want. I commend you for that.

I guess I don't understand, like you, why all of the people seem to think that if others are not on their side of the fence, then they must fight. Seems pointless really.


Me? I love Bob Schneider's music. I love the book "The Brother's K" and I have seen the movie For Love of the Game many, many times. I wish other people loved all of those things too. But I don't dislike anyone because they don't happen to like those things. In fact, I respect different opinions and find those are what make life interesting.

Thanks for being patient with my questions, for not trolling other sites and being cruel, and for being true to what you believe.

Amnesia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Think about a fantastic book you have read, an
> amazing song you have heard, perhaps the most
> wonderful movie you have ever seen... you want to
> tell your friends about it - you want them to
> share in it too...because it brought you so much
> joy. I think that is what parents are trying to do
> with the child-free people. I am not saying I
> agree...but I think that is partly what they are
> doing...trying to share something that was
> meaningful to them.

And we childfree people are trying to WARD off prying parents like that for the same reason. We just DON'T buy into the fairy tale about babies being such a fabulous, divine experience that we SHOULD indulge in - for various reasons, of course.

> At the same time, it is hard. It is full of
> heartache and frustration and again - they are
> individuals so they have the ability to talk back
> and drive me up the wall. They make bad choices,
> and I have to stand by and let them learn from
> them. They obviously have a huge financial impact
> on our lives.

Now you admit it is REALITY.

"........At the same time, it is hard. It is full of
> heartache and frustration and again - they are
> individuals so they have the ability to talk back
> and drive me up the wall. They make bad choices,
> and I have to stand by and let them learn from
> them. They obviously have a huge financial impact
> on our lives..........."

Sucks to be you!

Childfreedom has never ONCE brought me even one moment of heartache, financial distress, or frustration.

Amnesia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>And like I said to a comment on my blog,
> you all have made the HARD choice by deciding not
> to have them. I don't think it was the wrong one.
> It sounds like you had all the facts and know what
> you want. I commend you for that.


I have to say that, for me, the choice not to have children was not at all hard, in fact it was easy, very easy. Apart from the fact that even when I was a small child myself I decided that I never wanted children, I have various reasons for that choice, but at no time was it a hard choice for me. And when I see my sister, who has kids, in the middle of a messy divorce, the kids playing her up (they are quite small, one's 4 the other 6), the fact that she has to pay out thousands of £'s in childcare and all the other associated hassles that go with children then it makes it even clearer that I made the right decision for me.
And then there's the sheer number of people on the planet...

Amnesia--I just wanted to say, that I, personally, appreciate your willingness to see our side of things.

And you're right about two things: There is a lot of venom spewed on this board (which we have every right to do), AND most of the time that venom comes with a very valid point. It's not as if the stuff we complain about here is just stuff we made up. Our society, on virtually every level these days, is slanted toward favoring people with children. We come to this board because we're all more than just a little fed up with it. It's a place to air our grievances, and to support each other in our way of living.

"Some of my best friends are black... I mean PARENTS."

I appreciate Amnesia's post, for the record. I have friends who have kids and take good care of them, and don't give me shit for not wanting my own; but I also know people who are breeders, and I choose not to refer to them as "friends".

However, on this forum, if we can't think of something mean to say, we don't say anything!!

".........Think about a fantastic book you have read, an amazing song you have heard, perhaps the most wonderful movie you have ever seen... you want to tell your friends about it - you want them to share in it too...because it brought you so much joy. I think that is what parents are trying to do with the child-free people. I am not saying I agree...but I think that is partly what they are doing...trying to share something that was meaningful to them....."

And that's where being a grown up comes in. It means that you'll have to suck it up and deal with it when somebody doesn't swoon over your little pweshus, or get excited over the same things you do.

Do you have any idea how many times I've had people react indifferently or even with nasty comments to some things that I was excited about? LOTS! Did I go off crying on a blog about it or attacking other people verbally? NO! Get over it!

KidFreeLuvnLife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ".........Think about a fantastic book you have
> read, an amazing song you have heard, perhaps the
> most wonderful movie you have ever seen... you
> want to tell your friends about it - you want them
> to share in it too...because it brought you so
> much joy. I think that is what parents are trying
> to do with the child-free people. I am not saying
> I agree...but I think that is partly what they are
> doing...trying to share something that was
> meaningful to them....."
>
> And that's where being a grown up comes in. It
> means that you'll have to suck it up and deal with
> it when somebody doesn't swoon over your little
> pweshus, or get excited over the same things you
> do.
>
> Do you have any idea how many times I've had
> people react indifferently or even with nasty
> comments to some things that I was excited about?
> LOTS! Did I go off crying on a blog about it or
> attacking other people verbally? NO! Get over
> it!



Exactly. I have interests that other people don't share and I don't try and inflict these interests on people as I know that aren't interested and probably don't want to know. It is the same with kids. I am not interested in people's brats and don't want to know about them.